Help me Understand

Players Helping Players
1

I am going to I guess challange, logically, a rule … that after research, I find to not be settled… I am talking about “Banking” or “Rathering”… I have now seen some sites list this as a basic Poker rule, while I did find sites alowing it. I almost pick’d up the phone and call’d 4-5 casinos in Vegas, but I have not done that yet…

From the wild west, where leaving the table the big winner early might get you shot… to Vegas, where most games were against the house, therefore its in the interest of a casino to want more chips in play… just cause its more likely the player will try and bet with them… So yes, it may be rude as hell to pull chips off the table between hands, but I see where its no more rude than someone attacking the short stack consistantly… but lets look @ this…

Currently, you can “auto-rebuy” and “auto-top off” … so why can’t you “anti-auto-rebuy” or “anti-auto-top off”… giving 1 segment of the players a advantage, without giving the opposide side … the same advantage… is creating a bias, that inherantly is unfair to 1 set of players.

If you told me that noone could auto-top off or auto-rebuy… basically I’m saying if you sit and lose your stack, then you must get up, get back in line to reseat at the table… paying the full buyin back onto the table … or you wouldn’t be able to lose 10%, then between hands add back in that 10% either … then fine, I might accept the fact that if I sit and win 10%, I can’t then “bank” that 10% between hands…

Lets also take the player that might buyin, then bust and rebuy 4 more times onto that ring table… he now has pumped 5x the buyin onto the table, if he wins 2x back yet can’t re-bank that… wouldn’t the limit here be … he couldn’t bank back more than 4x , untill he reaches the 4x, then must still sit with 1x the buyin… you see how crazy this gets…

Since Texas Hold’em is NOT against the house, then the idea of holding chips @ the table is then a factor of … yet again, a rule that is protecting some players while hurting other players… you can’t let ppl “auto-top off” and not let ppl “anti-auto-top off”.

Having said all of this, why would any poker site think this rule is awesome… simple… they want you to lose your chips as fast as possible and buy more… its purely financial…, they don’t want you to increase your bankroll…

Eliminate Auto-top off, eliminate rebuys… or allow banking of chips… Otherwise, you are giving someone an advantage, and taking away an advantage to the rest…

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2

I just spoke with Ameristar Casino, they have a 45 min rule, not 2 hours yet also allow add’n chips at any time between hands… I also see , sure they don’t want you add’n then bank’n chips just to help you against 1 player… so still, eliminate all of it… at the very least offer tables that both allow or disallow rebuys or add’n chips… just like MTTs, some are rebuy, some are not… hell maybee even have tables that allow bank’n chips as a table rule…

But to allow 1 segment of players a “right” that can’t be both ways… is logically unfair…
As long as you admit its unfair, then fine… just know that that rule forces ppl to use hit & run tactics on ring tables more than normal, so never say… thats what we want to stop by this rule.

Ohh and Replay staff, there’s a hole in your code… If I jump enuff tables, it re-sets the clock and I can return to tables faster… that means you have a rule thats un-inforce-able, kinda… can you say… Oooooops ?

3

Ring games are called “ring games” to reflect their origin. Many tournament players would bust out early, but still wanted to play poker, so they set up ad hoc tables in a ring around the remaining tables. Keeping the chips in play more closely resembles a tournament format.

Let’s say I am at a table where the max buyin is 2m. I’ve been there awhile, and now have 8m in chips. You sit with 2m, we get allin, and you win, doubling to 4m. You are up on me by 2m.

The next hand, we get it all in the middle and I win. Now I’m up 2m on you.

If, on the other hand, you bank the 2m winnings after the first hand, all I can do is break even if I win the next hand. It would take me 2 hands to get 2m ahead of you.

Are you suggesting that it’s fair that you can show a 2m profit in one hand if it takes me 2 hands to show the same profit?

And yes, if you lost the first hand, it would take you 2 hands to show a profit, but his is a function of the stakes and max buyins, not an artificial dynamic created when you take your profits off the table.

The original ring players were tournament players, and they set up the rules and customs to reflect the game that they played… tournament poker.

4

In tournament(mtt) or SnG , rebuys are listed if offered, most are not even offered… there is no top off your chips, and unless listed there is no rebuy … [quote=“SunPowerGuru, post:3, topic:6635”]
Are you suggesting that it’s fair that you can show a 2m profit in one hand if it takes me 2 hands to show the same profit?
[/quote]I made a profit of 2m, within the hand, you also can make the same “in hand” profit I can with the next 2m… even if I bank the original 2m… you are looking @ it outside 1 hand… and you are looking @ profit, not 1 person having 1 right, yet the other person not having the opposite right…

I am not talking about profit margains… but ok, lets take this example… we both sit for the 2m, I win 500k from you creating a imbalance of 1m … 2.5 vs 1.5… but then you between hands add back your 500k … now that cuts my imbalance I created in 1/2 … 2.5 vs 2 ( difference is now 500k ) … but yet I can’t between hands pull my 500k out, to re-balance us both out @ 2m … what I’m saying is that is inherantly un-fair to 1 player.

Just like MTT, offer both kinds of tables … 1 that allows add’n chips, rebuys, and bank’n chips… and 1 that allows none of that crap… Yes SunPowerGuru, I am saying if you take my chips and bank them, I have to bust you to get “my” chips back, then force you to rebuy to get a crack at “your” chips… its harder, and it adds strategy into a ring table…

(edit) - and yes it makes players think twice before just trying to roll over ppl.

5

*challenge
*picked
*called
*it’s
*it’s
*it’s
*consistently
*an advantage
*inherently
*no one
*Let’s
*until

6

We seem to have a fundamental difference in the way we approach the game, which is fine.

I would never sit at a table with less than the max buyin, and always use auto-top. I want to maximize the amount I can win.

You seem to like to sit short and want to bank any profits. You play to minimize the amount you can lose.

I’m not saying one way is better than the other… just that they are different ways to play the game.

So basically, you would like to change long standing customs and rules in order to better match your style of play. As you know from my other posts, I am against rule changes that alter the game in order to favor one style over another.

I can never be bullied because I never have a large percentage of my bank in play. I don’t need arbitrary rule changes because I adapt my play to the existing rules.

Of course, you have every right to play as you see fit and to lobby for any changes you would like to see implemented. You asked for help in understanding why things are the way they are, and I tried to explain it to the best of my (limited) knowledge. Good luck. :slight_smile:

7

I’ll go you 1 better SPG … Lets take this rule and make it generic, shall we…

Any player leaving a table, with more than 0 chips, must re-seat ( on any same level table ) with same chipstack within a 2 hour window …This also assumes that topping off your chips is eliminated too.

I eliminated the imbalance, lets just see what happens …
Player xxxxxx, joins table for 1m, loses 300k… leaves… now, that player within the 2 hour window, must reseat with only the 700k, and Staff must allow that re-seat for 2 hours, no matter what the players’s bankroll is, assuming they still have the 700k avail.
Player yyyyy, joins table for 1m, takes the 300k, and has the same restriction… within 2 hours he must re-seat with the 1.3m …

I know you SPG, or I think I do … do you ever think that rule will be applied both ways… hell no it won’t… thats just crazy talk… just like the following example, you would just say…“Sarah, thats just stupid, noone would ever make a rule like that”

Howabout Football… new rule, players can pass the ball but the defence can only tackle the player after he/she catches it, but is not allowed to attempt to interfere with the pass … Thats giving 1 team a advantage, that the other team cannot defend against…even if all teams adhear to that, it still creates an imbalance within the game.

I say the imbalance created as currently described, is just as STUPID as saying you can pass the ball, but the defence cant try to stop the pass… just STUPID.

8

NO, I am challanging the exsisting norms that are inherantly unfair, I’m sorry if you learned to play under those conditions… I am only challanging 1 thing SPG, a imbalance exsists to favor 1 set of players… either call a spade a spade, but don’t call a spade a goat.

9

I’m amazed SPG, that you decided to attack me on the grounds that I want something that benefits me, not on the facts themselves… I expected more from you… I personally don’t care if any change benifits me, if it makes it more fair to all, then thats what matters.

10

I’m not attacking you, sorry you took it that way.

11

Traditional norm : 1500’s … earth is flat …
Someone came along and said … wait, the earth is round and I can prove it.

who benifits, doesn’t matter … the earth is round, case closed, and it was fix’d

12

then if thats so SPG, do what I did, quote me and show the flaws…

All I’m challanging is : the current norm is unfair to 1 set of players …

13

@SunPowerGuru,

I can sit here and say, ohh ur smart, wise, brilliant, ect ect ect… they’re all true…
I envy you Sun, I also know the difference between discussion/debate/arguement…
So, I want you to attack my facts, if you can… but lets not just argue, lets debate.

14

I guess my basic point is that I don’t see it as unfair to 1 set of players, although it is probably “unfair” to certain approaches to the game or to specific strategies.

I learned the game in a real money environment. I want the game to be as unfair as possible because I want to be rewarded for spending the time and effort needed to find and learn how to exploit those parts of the game that can give me an edge. If I don’t have an advantage, I might as well just play the lottery.

I don’t want to make ring games harder, and I don’t want to add an additional layer of strategy. I play tournaments because they ARE harder and have an additional layer of strategy. I also don’t want to change the rules of checkers to make it more like chess… it is what it is.

Actually, it’s closer to an oblate spheroid because of the flatness of the poles and equatorial bulge. (hahaha)

Scientific advancement and traditional values have often clashed. The rules of poker aren’t a science, they’re a tradition.

15

SPG, is there any possible way to get on a table ??? maybee HU for stupid low stakes, just to chat, not to play ?

16

Why, so you can hit me with the pouty quivering lip and make me cave to your womanly manipulations? You will no doubt put your hands on your hips, blow your bangs out of the way, and force me to say, “yes dear, you are right, I don’t know how I could have been so stupid!”

I would, but my GF is giving me the oooshka oooshka look because she wants to take me out because it’s my birthday. Perhaps another time. :slight_smile:

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Happy Birthday

18

:birthday:Happy Birthday !!! :balloon:

19

Thanks to both of you.

The best thing I got was a Victorinox Fibrox 8" Chef’s Knife, which I highly recommend. I spent most of the day slicing stuff up. Now I can’t seem to find my cat. :frowning:

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Recently I sat at a table… after beating 1 guy on a slo play, he then bet out and lost 9 of the next 10 hands, and every hand… he got topp’d off … if anyone in thier right mind doesn’t see that as a huge advantage, they need to see a psychologist… the rest of the table had no chance to create an imbalance against him, plus his “touchable” range of chips stay’d static as he got topp’d off…

Call it whatever you want, its Anti-Banking(rathoring), and is a huge advantage if allowed… and it is allowed, yet the opposite side of the same coin is NOT allowed. Full rebuys, are even more of an advantage, thats if you have auto on, otherwise it kicks you out for a hand which is wrong, wrong.