Replay only rule?

Players Helping Players
1

I was recently on a ring game table to get a badge, and I ran across a wierd occurance I would like someone from the staff to reply to this thread.

Other poker sites lets you “bank” winnings when playing ring games, I tried to do this earlier on a ring game table and it wouldn’t allow me to do that… why ?

I bought in for 100k, I increased my stack to 135k, I attempted to leave seat… bank the 35k… then rejoin and pay the xtra blinds to buy back in. I was forced to buyback in for the whole 135k or not rejoin table, thus not allowable to “bank” winnings which is perfectly legal. The point is to bank your investment, then play purely with OPM (other ppls money), yet stay on the same table… giving the players a chance to get thier money back from me.

Why did this happen, and if such a rule exsists… why ???

2

This was asked in a different thread not long ago. Seems that if you leave a table and return within an hour, you have to buyin for the amount you left with.

To quote that other thread…

whoeverit Dec '16

I read on an old post some time ago that replay used to allow people to bank winnings and return to the same table but it became like musical chairs with different players leaving to bank (some players even banking every winning hand) and ruining the flow of the game so the decision was made to impose a time limit.

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By the way, poker pros call that, “going south” and get bent out of shape over it. You aren’t supposed to take chips off the table in a no-limit game.

Freddy Deeb was accused of taking some of his winnings off the table once in a televised episode of High Stakes Poker…

4

I did it in Vegas, and noone got bent outta shape after I won 6-700, and took my orig 200 off the table. All ya gotta do is tell the dealer ahead of time. Can Mr Replay weigh in on this for me ?
( ohh and yeah, that was all in 1 hand… 200 → 8-900 )
There is a difference between illegal, and unpopular…

5

When a player does this it is described in a not such glamorous term, “ratholing”. The reason for term, and yeah, the reason for the policy, is to stop people from doing this practice.

Imagine the player who is dealt AA, hits the set on the flop and then loses to a 2 5 suited str8 or flush who went all in against the set. Now imagine the pusher sits out two hands and comes in again for the minimum buy-in. Needless to say bad blood arises.

There is no problem leaving after a big hit is made. The problem is when the won cash disappears into the perpetrator’s bank.

Scratch

1 Like
6

No it’s not against the rules as such but then laughing at a funeral isn’t either but nobody really wants to go there do they?. It’s plain rude and bad sportsmanship and just not done in either situation. This is poker etiquette lesson 1 on day 1 of poker school

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In every cash game I play, this is not allowed by rule. You may rebuy at the table but you cannot cash out and re-enter for less money or remove chips from play. In fact, in many of these games, you are committed to a certain number of hours play just to be given a seat. If you are busted before then and do not want to rebuy, then you are out. If you have chips, you are there at least until you have fulfilled your time commitment.

So, if a casino wants to allow this at their low $ tables, that’s their business but you would not find them nearly as accommodating at higher stakes and rightfully so, IMO. It protects players from hit, run and repeat poker among other things. A game host wants to have games that are most inviting to its regular and/or high limit players. Since taking cash off the table in NL poker is considered bad form, most hosts will explicitly forbid it or create lock-out times. I assume Replay Poker created this policy to more closely mimic actual live play.

Regardless of the reason for it, every poker room has its own rules, from minimum buy-ins to time requirements to rebuys and so on. When we play, it is up to us to know the house rules and abide by them. As you said, there are places that will allow you to bank your winnings and the players there have to accept that, whether they like it or not.

1 Like
8

Hmmmm,

A few years back I went to Vegas. I sat @ a 1/2 unlim table ( $1 / $2 blinds, no limit ((table stakes))). I bought in for $200, 3 hands in I won a big hand AA vs KK… I was allowed after announcing to the dealer to remove my 200, and leave the rest on the table.
Certainly in that situation, I am not taking any “profit” off the table just my stake. My penalty is I now have less to “touch” of the other ppls money should I go all in again. Also, at the same time, I am not depriving anyone of a chance at getting thier money back. Later on I was also able to pull another 200 off the table. I ended up playing for 2 1/2 hours with a profit of 200 bucks. I can’t say for sure but I believe the table had a min buyin of $100.

Well, I see I am hearing " hit & run tactics " or " Rude / Unsportsmanlike ". I am also seeing that 2 things I think are separate, are being combined… " buy-in reqs " and " table format ".

1st off - As anyone reading this can go see my last hand was #266584115. I left the table with 135k-ish, after a 100k buy-in… by definition did I not hit & run ???
2nd - While it is harder to eat into my opponents “real bankroll” should I get down chips, that is a risk I think we all take to sit down… plus it protects us also on the backside. I even seem to remember seeing a pro on TV latenight on 1 of the rare cash games they did pull chips off the table, yet he ended up losing more back to the table in that hour show…lol… so no I cannot say I feel this is “rude” in any way.
3rd - this table format was as follows… 50k - 200k buyin if I remember correctly. Thats to sit at the table and play, no matter what game is played. The game format was No-Limit T.Hold.m, blinds 500/1000. The two are not mutually exclusive. — If a seat is open anyone can play, and anyone who wishes to leave can after annoucing to the table ( checkbox: sit out next hand / leave ).

Scratch has indicated this is a specific policy. This policy is flawed and here’s why.
This policy only applies to 1 table, so if there’s 3 ( 50k-200k Bi - 500/1k ) tables running anyone can flop between the 3 and hit each table for profit easily. It is also flawed because you have adjusted such on a ring table, its almost like saying well I hate bingo players so I’ll limit the # of times they can go all in in a certain amount of time. Another way its flawed is that anyone can continuosly rebuy-in 15-20k between hands to stay @ a certain chip stack if they are losing but if your winning then you lose that same opportunity ??? really are you kidding me ???

If I lose chips on a ring table, there’s only 1 way of getting them back… winning them back. If someone chooses to squirrell away my chips or leave the table with my chips… makes no difference to me, those chips are gone. Just as ablut 1/2 the poker world thought that “9 like a boss, dude” was over the top… well yes he was, but he was within the rules, no matter how unpopular some ppl thought. I would rather grind back my chips from that person that tried to bank my chips by busting them out a few times so they gotta dig deep and bring my chips back out on the table, than I ever would not being able to bank profits. I guess thats just 1 more reason I play MTTs and not Ring-Games, I was only playing a ring game for the Badge.

If its a rule its a rule, I think its a stupid rule to protect weak and whiny players. I still love Replay, and will continue to attempt to add to the site and the community. In the end your rule failed, I hit & run that table for 35k-ish.

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Lets have a look at how ratholing could be used if it were to be allowed . Let’s say you sit down at a 1/2 no limit hold-em table with a min/max buy in of 100/400. You buy-in for min 100 in the big blind position. When you get the button you add on up to 400 because now you have the best position. Once your mid position you take off down to 250. When your early position and in the blinds you take off down to 100 because now your position sucks. Button again, add back on up to the 400 max. This would be heaven to loose/agg players as you can push or call all-ins without risking much of your bank.That would be the best strategy to employ if it were allowed and I’m sure it wouldn’t be long before everyone started doing it. That would be a real quick way to create a riot in most casino.
If you have a big win of course you can cash it in and leave with your profit, Or go have lunch or a drink. Get on the rail and watch the top table for a bit. Watch the tables you may like to join for weak play and fish. Wait out the time limit then re-buy and repeat.

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Whoeverit, its a philisophical question to a big degree and when the change was made it was no different than changing a no-limit table, to an almost no-limit table… its no longer no-limit.

When different casino’s in Vegas do things differently you can imagine how that causes problems for mid level players, and again as Kasouf did… unpopular isn’t illegal. When a player learns a legal tactic, then is told but no… thats rude… then thats rediculous… I certainly use rules to my advantage, and understand thier downsides too…thats, well POKER… hahaha

Just as in War there are casualties, so are there in Poker… yes you can claim its a balance for “enjoyment”, yet the “enjoyment” for many is the challange of realistic poker. But since you allow a player to re-buyin every hand or every other hand to keep a nominal stack size, I think you should eliminate that just as you eliminated banking chips… @least thats fair to both types of players. I know you won’t do this, because that means you would have to force a min buyin of the table amount.

@least with ML, PL, NL… you offer all types, perhaps ring game tables without this limit too… but you see thats alot of work for what wasn’t already broken that you fixed… I will lay good real money that rude or not, the majority of Vegas casino’s consider this a legal play.

I might as well ask now, on a ring game table ( here ) can I get up and reseat in another seat and just pay the BB again ?? ( even assuming I reseat with my full table stack )… Talk about musical chairs… Basically as I see it, a few newer or weaker players complained so much you made this silly rule. Its not “realistic poker” , heck its not even Fair in the currect implementation and it certainly will confuse any player that learns here then goes to Vegas and is like WTH why is that allowed.

And personally Whoeverit, if the rules are, I pay the BB again in a dry posistion to reseat, then I don’t care if I reseat every other hand, I keep paying the BB over and over and over to keep reseating… You are equating dumb, wierd, unpopular, unconventional or insane ways to play… to illegal play… In the end WIll Kasouf , while unpopular to some, was a god to others… would you have a rule in WSOP main event that any “talk” at a table longer than 1/2 the clock is illegal… of course ya wouldn’t…

Trust me I know how the mgmt here must balance for all players, but this is analagous to changing # of times you can go all in, in a no-limit format… beacuse too many players are going all in too many times… its not something that needs to be fixed…once ya do that its no longer no-limit…and even you gotta admit, Whoeverit… that if 1 person is allowed to add 10k chips every hand while losing, to a 90k stack… it should be equally legal for another player to “bank” that 10k every other hand even if it costs them paying the 1k BB again… thats just fair to both sides, yet as is… its only fair to 1 side.

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Sarah -

I totally get what you are saying that “rude” does not equate to “unlawful” and you are correct. However, House Rules are the binding rules under which we play in each venue and the house rules at Replay Poker are actually looser in this regard to many casinos. Stated explicitly in the House Rules of every major casino I have ever played in is the prohibition from removing chips from the table at any point until you are leaving the table (Before you say anything, I have played in casinos around the world over the course of the past 30+ years and was a casino analyst for several years after grad school. Not claiming to be the best, or even a good poker player but I do have some experience). Most casinos also have a rule that Replay Poker does not and that is about changing/transferring tables. Here, you can do this right away so you can pretty much get around the 1st rule if there are enough tables open. You can jump from 1 to the next on and on here.

In casino poker room all transfers are done through a floorperson via requests. Explicitly stated in the house rules are the conditions under which you may transfer and when and with how many chips, etc. Each casino will have a different rules for this but many will not allow you to join a new game until it is “established” for some period of time, like 30min or more. Some will only accept a transfer request if your table is full and/or there is a waiting list to fill your seat.

So this has nothing to do with whether I agree or not with the rule. It has to do with whether it is a rule or not and it happens to be. Without a floorperson here, I guess the simplest thing was to allow players to go to any other seat in any other game they wanted to but to prevent them from returning to the same seat in the same game with less chips. It seems to be a compromise based on having technology rather than human contact to approve and coordinate transfer requests. The bottom line though is that this is far from unusual and is in fact the norm. It was based on the concept that removing chips from play equates to no longer playing NL poker.

There are tons of rules that I have found stupid or irrelevant over the years. The auto top-off thing they have going here is one of them. I find it awful and agree they should get rid of it ASAP. It is a feature used to skirt the concept of NL poker and agree 100% with you on this. There are some rules that aren’t even enforced all that frequently and some that fall under the WTF category of “house discretion”, like what happened with Will Kassouf at the WSOP. They just are what they are and as players we adjust to them and abide by them. Just for reference, here are the links to the poker rules of 2 major casinos showing the same policies (they were the 1st 2 that came up on my search):

Borgata: https://www.theborgata.com/assets/webpage/PLAY/Poker_Guide/index.html#stakes
Mohegan Sun: https://mohegansun.com/content/dam/mohegansun/PDF/poker/poker-rulebook.pdf

The bottom line is that if you remove chips from play, you are no longer playing No-Limit. A perfect example would be if someone had you covered even after your big win and the next hand he/she went all-in. Now, your decision should be whether to call for ALL the chips you have at the table, not for just the ones you felt like keeping in play. That is the basis of NL poker and taking chips off the table violates that most basic premise.

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One of the online poker rules sites (poker listings) lists this as a rule…
Going South
The illegal act of removing chips from your stack, taking them off the table and out of play.

Poker Wiki has this to say on the matter.
Ratholing is the practice of taking money off the table. Apparently another less-common phrase used to describe this practice is “going south” (seen during season two of High Stakes Poker). Standard poker rules forbid ratholing, and most casinos will enforce this prohibition. Virtually all poker is played at table stakes, meaning that only money on the table at the start of a hand is in play and subject to being wagered. Ratholing is taken seriously, especially in no-limit and pot-limit games, because it deprives opponents of the opportunity to win back money lost to the ratholer.
Online poker makes it somewhat easier to rathole, but some sites (such as PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker) will force a player who leaves a no-limit table to buy in for the same amount if reseated within a set time limit.

My local cacino rules it as follows.
Rule 23. Leaving a table with the intent to rejoin in the near future with less chips (aka “ratholing”) is grounds for warning, penalty or being required to return with the same value of chips. Players returning within 2 hours of leaving will be at the discretion of Management.
Crown casino Melbourne rule 6:11
A player not in a hand may augment his/her stake, but will not remove chips from the table.
.
The majority of casinos enforce this as a rule so it follows that it should be enforced online. It’s a house rule and is as it is so we must abide. The Vegas casino you visited may well be the exception which proves the rule. I’m not a fan of the auto top-up either and having watched some of Kassouf’s play I think it was perfect. He tilted almost every opponent and that is their fault not his. Is he the new and improved “poker brat” or what???

1 Like
13

You cant change the rules of poker to suit you sassy. That dealer should not of allowed you to take any chips off the table. Every player should have the opportunity at all your chips not just the chips that you won. Imagine if every player at the table did that. Then you wouldn’t have the opportunity to win more than they won, doesn’t make any sense. To the original question about not being able to bank and play at the same table, no you cant, but you can leave that table and go to another table here at replay and start with your original entry stakes and it will bank your winnings. I think you know that I dealt no-limit poker for 3 years, and our poker room rule was you could leave the table anytime and cash out, but for the rest of that night if you wanted to come back and play you had to put back on the table with what you cashed out with. For example if you bought in for $200 and won $ 100 you would cash out for $300. And say you decided to come back in an hour or 2 and wanted to play some more poker, you would have to sit down with the $300 that you cashed out with period. Every player for that night has the opportunity to win back the chips that they lost to you for that night. The reason for these rules is back in the day some players would shoot you dead for what you are suggesting and arguing for lol.

2 Likes
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Rock, I was pointing out a hypocritical rule here. Fine, my last site and Full-Tilt allowed it, as did The Venitian in vegas… Personally thats 1 of the only challanges I used to find on ring game tables… and that is, busting someone out enuff so “my” chips come back out and I can win them back ( thats if I was unlucky enuff to lose them in the 1st place )… furthermore my buyin is separate from any “profit”, so I’m not asking for a situation where people can’t get thier cash back from me even if I was only allowed to pull my orig buyin.

The fact that I can manually top off, and even set the game to do it for me… specifically shows that 1 side of a rule is allowed, yet the opposite side of that very same rule is not allowed… that is illogical, and hypocritical… that is a fact.

Its a rule here, I shall obey it… that doesn’t mean any healthy discussion on any rule, is inhearently a bad thing.

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You are talking about 2 different situations (2 different rules)

You can sit at a table with an amount between the min and max bring in. When you sit with a min bring in you can top off, but never to an amount higher as the max bring in.

Imagine a player sit down with 20.000 chips and after 1 hour he has 2.000.000 chips, he leaves the table and comes back with 20.000 in a few mins. Is that logical to allow that? I not think so. Leaving the table is normal, but not comming back at the same table in a few mins.

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This why tourney is better, you sit, and it’s not even real chips, but when you are 0, then you have to go. When you have chips, you can still play. Cash, if you break someone, they just put 250,000 chips back on and try to beat you again.

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Happiness, you are describing it differently… I’m saying for example… 50-200k buyin… A player sits with 100k… and untill he/she wins a hand they continually rebuy each hand replacing any lost chips the last hand between hands, and remains at 100k…VERSUS… a player that each time he gets above 100k, pulling the profit off the table and still thus remaining at 100k…

You’re looking at that from a very narrow perspective… if a player buys in for 20k, and after an hour has 2m… he prolly is the supreme chip leader at that table, because the table buyin can’t be more than 50-60k… so if I was looking for a table to sit at, I would rather sit where all players have basically the same amount, but there are no players with 50x the buyin on the table… ( many players share that thought )… so yeah as mgmt, I would want that player to cashout and rejoin the table hoping that other players will force that player to rebuy more than a few times and bring money back onto the table without having there be a supreme bully at the table.

I think you overlooked that and other considerations like… some players pride themselves on ring tables, making agressive players keep pulling money outta thier pocket, especially if they take a chunk of change of thier money and squirrel it away.

( Opinion only )
Bottom line to me is : If I’m dumb, unlucky, or unwise enough to lose my money to someone on a Ring Game table, then that money is gone… where the heck it goes, is none of my buisness nor should it be… This rule hurts more players than it protects, plain and simple.

So please Happiness, take this thread as it was intended, for discussion only. I for one apreciate all the comments and say Thanks for them.

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This is BS. I left a 1/2 ring game w/ 6xx chips.I left that table for a break.I then joined another table,a 2/4, that allowed me to buy in at my choice,200.Played a while when a bingo player show’d up so I left w/ 3xx chips.I then tried to get into a 1/2 and could only do so at the 2nd previous table cashout of 6xx chips!!! I said eff it and cancelled/left Replay poker tables.What gives?We have to deal w/ all types here,bingo and bullies come to mind,but we can’t bank chips ??? Very flawed policy.Personally,I wait it out just out of spite.Why should bingo players have more rights than chip bankers when they are the most disruptive players at a once nice,fun table?

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Hvorfor kan jeg ikke forlate bordet til banken min chips og sette seg ned igjen med hva buy in jeg vil? Du kan gjøre det på alle andre gratis poker og ekte poker, men ikke her? hva skjer med det?

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Agreed, house rules can vary as the house always makes the rules. Making sure you know the rules is each players responsibility. I’ve learned this the hard way. Splashing the pot and other childish ways are from temper tantrums mostly but they happen and there must be guidelines for our game & they need to be known and enforced equally…