Unlim Rebuys for Dummies

[1Warlock]

asbig - welcome to the game. Just wanted to let you know that the buy-in for any tournament does not represent a 1:1 exchange to tournament chips. In the Bankroll Builders for example, you buy-in for 500 (including tournament fee) and start with 1500 chips. Then in the 50K buy-in tournaments, like North Sea Race, you get 2500 chips at the table for your 50K buy-in.

Basically, you cant look at chips in play when determining your potential returns, only the buy-in amounts. That being said, tournaments with unlimited rebuys are not for everyone as they tend to be more than a bit wild for the rebuy period at least. I don’t see them as being particularly great for building a bankroll either because you need to make strategic rebuys and therefore your total outlays tend to run much higher than the 500 chip initial spend. Maybe try the 1K one without the rebuys and/or some of the other low buy-in games? The low stakes SnG’s are also great for building bankrolls and proficiency.

Have fun and ask questions - the community here is pretty great when it comes to helping each other out.

[Sassy_Sarah]

[quote=“1Warlock, post:25, topic:6256”]
The low stakes SnG’s are also great for building bankrolls and proficiency.
[/quote]Warlock is correct, and I think the best to build up is a 9 person SnG, paying 3 places.
To me a SnG just has a specific # of entries, but plays the same as a MTT.[quote=“asbig, post:23, topic:6256”]
just looks to be the wrong type of tournament to build a bankroll.
[/quote]Asbig, while I don’t play it for profit, I figure top 3 for profit, but I want wins / t-pts…
Usually I spend 4-7k in entry fees, sometimes as much as 15k… If played correctly/often, you will increase your bankroll… but not in the way you think, 'cause you’ll get potential bonuses from 2 leaderboards that boost earnings.

[HugoX]

If you follow a simple rule, one repay if out early and the add-on if offered, then rebuys can be very profitable. I’ve looked at online games to see what the big winners play and they play a lot of rebuys and I’m guessing it’s for the same reason I like tournament play.

Because all the fish are in a barrel and can’t double up and run, they have to stay and play.

If they are rebuying multiple times they are also adding to the prize and increasing your buyin to winnings ration, In a good tournament a ration of 60 x your total buyin is a good tournament.
But most casino games are in the 12 to 15 x range and that is with the rebuy money they leave on the table.

In a rebuy, the game really starts when the rebuys end. I never worry that I may have just an average stack at the end of the rebuys and some one has 40xbb. I say try to hang onto those bud, ,I’ll need them at the final table. Now sometimes the leader is a solid player and you have to avoid him/her until you build your staked, usually two double ups will get you from average stack to top 10%. and three will get you in top 3.

The only bad thing about rebuys is that they tend to be much longer, but then again (if you limit yourself to one rebuy and the add-on) your ROI can be substantial.

Think of the rebuys as free equity, sort of like the free add-ons given by Replay, more bang for your buck.If your follow a simple rule, one repay if out early and the add-on if offered, then rebuys can be very profitable. I’ve looked as online games to see what the big winners play and they play a lot of rebuys and I’m guessing it’s for the same reason I like tournament play.

All the fish are in the barrel and can’t double up and run, they have to stay and play.

If they are replying multiple times they are also adding to the prize and increasing your buyin to winnings ration, In a good tournament a rations of 60 x your rebuy is a good tournament.
But most casino games are in the 12 to 15 x range and that is with the rebuy money they leave on the table.

In a rebuy, the game really starts when the rebuys end. I never worry that I may have just an average stack at the end of the rebuys and some one has 40xbb. I say try to hang onto those bud, ,I’ll need them at the final table. Now sometimes the leader is a solid player and you have to avoid him/her until you build your staked, usually two double ups will get you from average stack to top 10%. and three will get you in top 3.

The only bad thing about rebuys is that they tend to be much longer, but then again (if you limit yourself to one rebuy and the add-on) your ROI can be substantial.

[Sassy_Sarah]

HugoX,
This is about unlim rebuys… not 3x rebuys… [quote=“HugoX, post:27, topic:6256”]
I never worry that I may have just an average stack at the end of the rebuys and some one has 40xbb.
[/quote]Usually what I see would be this : 200/400 blinds stacks 3k/16k/50k… my target is an average stack, around 30 BBs… but leader is sitt’n at 100++ BBs, while low has 10 or less left to play with. [quote=“HugoX, post:27, topic:6256”]
The only bad thing about rebuys is that they tend to be much longer
[/quote]Thats false … usually 25-40% of the players drop, why I have no clue, by 1st break… 30 min in ( rebuy period )… most reg MTTs have less ppl gone after 30 minutes… plus with a few huge stacks, ppl are busted out faster…

[Sassy_Sarah]

After a recent meltdown ( yeah shocking ) trying to yet again explain a concept… I thought I would elaborate here for Rockit to read, if he even comes here… but for us all…

Without talking about the length of the timer, I wanna talk about them…
We all know Chris Ferguson, and him taking 10-15 seconds every decision… thats real $$$$ folks, not online free chip poker… there are other ways to disguise a player needing to think about something longer yet not letting thier opponents see it…

As with ANY timer, sure its within the rules to use… that doesn’t mean it can’t be used to be a …lets look @ “productive” reasons to use the timer…

Bubbletime : using the timer to slow down your table, so you play the blinds slower.
Punish a short stack : waste time so blinds go up before they hit the short stack…
Punish anyone : waste time so your enemy pays the new higher blinds…
Bigstack Slack : Table/Tourn chip leader waste time so everyone pays more blinds per hand…

---

Now, I originally wrote this post so ppl would not, enter then whine about all the freak’n all ins… ( not just mine, but most ppl like to play bingo a little bit, for ultra-low cheap rebuys…)

I also recently tried to ask someone if they would go to Vegas, sit @ a BlackJack table in last posistion, continually take the dealers’s bust card… then when the table tried to have him not do that, he would say… sorry, but thats not my strategy, I’ll keep doing it…

That person and many others say, but all your all ins are annoying too, you’re just as bad as we are…you won’t stop, so why should we…

There is a difference, you are doing it to…
A: be as annoying as possible to anyone who goes all in more than a few times in a row.
B: Limit hands/hr so the Bingo players have less chance of hitt’n thier Bingo.
C: hopefully catch anyone going all in on the last hand before break, so they get the penalty of 1 rebuy not 2 , if they lose that last hand…

( unintended consequence is … by limiting hands/hr , the whole table (including you) will lagg behind other tables that are going full bore bingo… thus when u get rebalanced, you have a better chance of being severly out stacked and being cannon fodder for the bullies… you also directly limit your number of chances of a huge hand… so yes, you are hurting yourself, the whole table, and doing it on purpouse beacuse of some misguided belief that… in a Bingo oriented MTT, you assume it should be normal poker as usuall, its NOT… )

On the other hand, I am trying to…
A: have some fun for 30 minutes, rather than slog’n thru another MTT all serious like.
B: build up a viable stack so after break, I have a decent chance at winning…
C: Earn KO bonuses ( bountys ) by knock’n ppl out…
D: Earn tourn-points for the leaderboards…

I get it people, unlim rebuys aren’t everyone’s cup of tea … but when you combine Bounties and Unlim Rebuys… its a Bingo fest… I can show you why still playing looser than usual … even once you get a stack is a good idea, but even if you are gonna win a stack and be super picky on your starting cards from then on… DON"T just sit there and waste the timer, then give some lame excuse why you do it… have some respect for your fellow players… just fold when its your turn, and don’t go outta your way to screw ppl on that last hand… its poor sportsmanship, rude, and just as bad as take’n the BlackJack dealers’s bust card…

[zmansuncle]

A player is entitled to use their chips and their time in any manner they see fit. You bet what you want, I will use the clock the way I want.

[Sassy_Sarah]

[quote=“zmansuncle, post:30, topic:6256”]
I will use the clock the way I want.
[/quote]let me re-rwite that for ya, and this is the truth…
“I will be a douche as much as I want, because …its within the rules”

When 1 player only plays “slow” in certain situations, but not all … its obvious its on purpouse… from there, the only question is “why”…

Just like that BlackJack player “can” continually take the dealers’s bust card, that doesn’t mean… he has to be an ass about it, nor will he be playing with others long… they will chg tables, just like on a ring table here… It certainly is within the rules, we all know that.

So… in a format of Unlim Rebuys and especially when coupled with KO bounties, you have to expect its gonna be a modified Bingo-Fest… As in an earlier post, while I think playing only premium hands will limit your @ 1st break chipstack, I can see ppl playing “picky”… that doesn’t mean I think being an ass wipe, for the simple fact you wanna be an ass wipe… is necessary.

I use every rule I can to my advantage, I’m sassy and I’m upfront about it… but I don’t be just be a “witch” to be a “witch”… I guess what you fail to still see Zman, is the whole point I started this thread was … So what I believe to be 1 of the funnest MTTs offered, could be enjoyed by alot more people… Not to morph into a cesspool of endless headaches.

I guess you also fail to see that Replay designs thier Leaderboards, so you need to “pad” your total # of MTTs of whatever type, so that you can then just worry about wins… I don’t like how they do it, but untill a logical/rational better system comes along , it is as you put it… it is what it is… So yes, ppl will play styles that fit into that scheme. Including this in the new BankrollBuilder promo, was kinda dumb… and specifically allowed ppl use the 500 B&R in new ways… Even me, I don’t play the 5k+R (unlim 30 min rebuy) like I do the BB 500 B&R… its too dam expensive.

There is only 1 micro buyin MTT, it includes unlim rebuys ( 30 min ) and KO bounty bonuses… thats the BB 500 B&R… Its not on the schedule as a serious MTT, its a mutant… And if I ever see 6/9 smart ppl all on 1 table to start with, Everyone else is screwed…but really Zman, whats wrong with just have’n some fun once an a while, are you that uptight or short on Bankroll ???

[zmansuncle]

Ugarte

[Whittaker]

LOL

[HugoX]

@Sassy_Sarah
I should have clarified, longer games at real games in casinos. I have not even noticed if there are rebuys at RP.

Of course I’ve rather be in the drivers seat after the rebuys and be the big stack, but even if not, I don’t worry much, Still lot of soft money on he table, the rebuy rebuy rebuy plays who gamble get luck and have a large stack. Pick the player, pick the hand pick their pockets and hope their lucky inside straight draw does not sink your set.

[GrandyB]

@Sassy_Sarah

If you embrace the fun factor of these MTTs, and go with the flow… not only will you usually have better luck in finishing posistion, but you can let your hair down and just have some fun.

I have no idea how I ran across this thread this morning since the last reply was posted more than a year ago but I’m glad I did.
I had tried a few bankroll builders in the past and hated them because of all the dadburn bingo playin going on all the dang time…or at least that’s how I perceived it until I read your post (I didn’t even realize back then that the rebuys were for a set duration).
After reading this thread and seeing that they’re a promotion this month with added chips I thought I’d give them another try and apply your strategies.
I played 2 of them today and had a blast!
Very different from my usual MTT play but I finally caught on as to when to call/fold/bet/raise and was running in 1st for some time with a bunch of knockouts under my belt.
After the break/rebuy period everyone chilled and it became a normal MTT and I really enjoyed the duration of play even tho I didn’t win.
Anyway, after playing I came here to thank you for your advice but couldn’t find the thread again so I had to go thru all of my history for this morning to finally track it down.
No idea why a 1.5 year old post showed up early this morning but I’m sure glad it did!