Today's ridiculous hands

I’m glad you think so too. :slight_smile:

It’s tough when that happens. You have the highest trips possible with the current board, and with the two on the board looking scary for anyone not holding a 7, you don’t want to scare off the fish, so the move a lot of players will make is to:

  • Check, thinking to disguise the strength of their hand, and hope the opponent bets with an inferior hand, possibly an under pair with the pair on the board, or
  • Bet lightly, to look like a weak attempt to steal the pot, and maybe induce a raise, or at least get a call and grow the pot for the next street.

But sometimes, though, you may wand to play the trips aggressively, and take the pot down. Especially if you’re last to act in the hand, and someone else has bet it, it might be better to raise them off, or if you can’t get them to fold, at least you’ll take a bigger chunk out of them at the river if you do win. If you’re representing 3 of a Kind with your raise, 2 pair is smart to fold. That doesn’t mean they always will, and sometimes when they don’t they may beat you, but a lot of the time it means they’re losing. Any odds calculator will tell you this, but it won’t tell you the outcome of the hand that you’re in ahead of time. It can only tell you the odds.

Unless you have some additional information that puts your opponent on a likely pocket pair themselves (such as a big raise preflop, or if they sustain a call to a reasonable-sized bet with the board paired) then you don’t really know what you have. Sure, it looks good, and a lot of times it is good, even with an over card on the board that fills a pair for just about any opponent’s ranges. In fact that’s the kind of hand you want: Someone paired a King or an Ace, while you’re holding trip 7s.

Just pray they don’t fill out. Two pair doesn’t draw to a full house as often as three of a kind does, but if you have trips with a pair on the board, that pair will turn another player’s set into a full house, and that’s a deadly trap for most of us, unless we have the kind of sense to know when trips isn’t good enough. I’ve taken out opponents many times where I hit a set, they had trips from a pair on the board, and thought they were invincible, and ran right into my boat. There’s a reason sets are much more desirable than trips, and that’s it. They are more hidden, and a pair on the board can help everyone, not just you.

That’s kinda what I had going on last Tuesday when I started this thread. I was so astounded by the way these hands kept breaking against me that I went back through my history and documented it here, and then just kept adding to it as the night went on and continued to deliver improbable situations, the deck setting me up with good cards and then turning everything sour for me by the river, missing flops entirely, running into wrong-suited flops, and suck-out situations, again and again and again, until I’d lost about 9 games in a row, many of them on promising hands where I reasonably should have expected to win most of them.

Indeed, I think about it, and my next thought is “what would the motive be? what would they have to gain by it?” Maybe nothing. But I’m sure it’d be a much more serious crime to do it on a pay site and win real money through cheating. Cheaters do get caught on pay sites from time to time, usually it’s collusion rather than hacking. But a lot of hackers will try to hack something just because it’s there, and you don’t really need a lot of motive to do it then.

I don’t watch anyone that closely to see what their bankroll growth is like over time. 300M/month is a LOT of chips, and if it’s a regular, timed thing, and always the same amount, that would indicate most likely someone buying a lot of chips, but the amount of money that would be required to do so… Maybe if they’re the owner of the site, or an angel investor buying chips as a way to keep the site afloat operationally. But if they’re actually winning that through play, then no, I don’t have any explanation. Players, good or bad, should have some variability, ups and downs, in their game. That’s just the nature of the game.

The thing with KK, it’s about 80% to win against any two cards, but against Ax it’s only about 67% to win.

If you’re really getting beat 9/10 of the time when someone calls you and you go to the river and you see the Ace, then there’s something wrong about that. But you are going to lose with KK vs Ax more than the expected 20% of the time. The difference between 1/3 and 1/5 might feel more like 9/10 if you’re very sensitive to losing what’s supposed to be one of your best hands.

It’s easy for those beats to stick in your head, painful memories are how we learn from mistakes afterall, and those memories will seem bigger than the memories where the hand goes as expected and you win, it’s almost a non-event because the outcome is exactly what you expected, and while it’s pleasant and you may win a lot of chips, you’re not going to remember it as well.

But when you play KK by playing an all-in preflop shove with it, you also have to consider every hand you folded out by making that move. Who’s calling shoves? It’s going to be AA, AK, AQ, AJ… maybe some ill-advised AT-, and pairs like AA-99, depending on how desperate the player is to double up. The hands most likely to have a better than average chance of winning, in other words.

But then there’s also hands like JT or 89, which might well hit a lucky two pair while your monster pair fails to improve to anything, or they’ll hit a straight with it, or maybe a flush… An idiot might call once and get lucky their very first time with it, and remember that and play it a dozen more times and lose with it every time, but they’ll still keep playing it because it’s their “lucky hand”…

Stick with the numbers, that’s where the luck is, though.

There’s lots and lots of ways to get beat with just a pair, even a great big one.

Players who shove too much, get beat too much.

Exactly, adding Chasing Loss’s and :whale2:.

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So today has been nothing but bad luck and hard losses, and I’ve gone right back to the outcomes I was having when I started this thread, only my holes are all patched and I’ve still been losing.

I had games where I got dealt starting hands in my ranges twice, won both times, won big pots both times, but bled out to finish 3rd and 4th. Not even getting cards that I could try to play if I decided to loosen my opening range a bit, just a steady diet of rags for like 20 orbits. In the game I finished 3rd, it was my only chips won for the day. Played a 3-Max and had the last opponent down to his last 80 chips and he came back on me after my cards went dead, and it’s been downhill since. All my other games haven’t even been close to the money, 6th, 7th, 8th. I gave up and just started throwing chips around in my last two games because strategy no longer works and it’s just fun to see the unbelievable hands that come to beat me. Flopping zilch after betting big on high broadway cards, hitting a nut flush and getting beat by a full house, I give up. Down about 300K on the day, and bound to throw another 500K away at the rate I’m going.

It’s very strange that no matter how I’m playing, I’ll have a day like this about once a week or so, when I just can’t win no matter what I do. This has been a constant from when I started until now, and about the only one really. Every time I look at my game and fix a hole and start winning for a time, about a week, and then have another day of unbelievable streaking bad luck. If it was the same day every week I could take it off and my win rate would skyrocket, but it varies, of course. Overall my bankroll grows, but these bad days are infuriating and unnatural.

I’ve come to realize that limping early is a strong hand. Just never fold, and never raise. Call any bet, and you win.

Losing a very big hand to a K8 shove that hits a full house on the flop to destroy pocket 7s. I worked so hard to get to this point and it’s impossible not to believe that the dealer just wants you gone from the table when a hand goes down like this.

puggy, do you fancy a game? at a 6-max 50k sng for example

I read your posts and I empathize…

I think you might find the play at 50k a bit less frustrating…

Any time I stray outside of “play tight, bluff less” below that buy in I end up regretting it

Players just don’t respond to signs of strength, unless you’re on a streak of winning hands, and have a bigger stack to boot

It can be really enjoyable to play the game when people respond to attempts to manage their perceptions…

Without that, so many players will just take their middling equity to the river and make you showdown

If you play more than 20% of hands, especially 9 seated, you’re almost always going to run into the players that have top 15% preflop holdings and just don’t respond to you betting as if you hold better…

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Thanks for offering. At this point, I don’t think it’s my play. I don’t think it’s my opponents failing to be controlled by my betting to make hero calls with junk hands, or sucking out improbably at the river. The improbability today is that I never improved from my hole cards. I’m winning 3-4 hands in a SNG, which isn’t enough to carry me to a money finish. I’m not too loose, I might be too tight, I’m winning a huge pot and then sitting on it for ages and end up bleeding until I get desperate and have to make a play, and then I lose, because my hand never ever improves after the flop. I’ve had a couple improbable hands myself where I shoved junk and got called by someone and ended up with a better hand, usually my low card pairing and them missing. But it’s just BS at this point that I’m not hitting more hands.

If anything I should drop down to low stakes and ride out this BS streak until the RNG curse ends and I can play again.

Right now I’m flat out furious and shouldn’t be playing at all, but I’m going to play all night chasing a win, and at this point I need 3 1st place finishes in a row to balance out the losses. I won’t get them, but I’m going to kill myself until my luck improves. Late last night, I briefly hit 9.0M chips, and I’m down to 8.68M now. Typical @#%@#% day, and tomorrow I’ll play exactly the same and probably win 100K, and the rest of my week will be like that, and then I’ll have another @#%#% day and lose 300K, but be up overall on the week, +700/-400.

1-for-11 today now. Going for 20 losses in a row if I can possibly manage it. It’s a lot of poker to play in 24 hours, but the secret is going bust in your first orbit and signing up for the very next table and going right into it seething and ready to shove any slightly hit pot.

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I get you… one thing to think about, in terms of luck… what goes up must come down, and vice versa. So for every random string of frustrating beats there will eventually be an equal random upswing where you’ll get really great hands, and unlikely underdog wins if the RNG is fair and balanced (which I hope and believe it is)

Take a break and when you’re ready, I’ll wager you’ll come back stronger because of this

If you ever want a friendly, no pressure, I will enjoy playing with you

Btw I know the feeling of going whole tournaments getting almost ONLY rags… it’s the most frustrating thing, especially as you get into the middle of a tournament and beyond.

I could take it if it was one tournament. It’s like 6 in a row and I start to lose my mind.

It’s also the ONLY getting good hands UTG, or when I get them on the button, the entire table folds to me, and I only get the blinds. And flopping my big hands that I open big into a flush flop that’s the wrong color.

Yes. I don’t envy you. Although at the same time, here is my recent trajectory:

45

I’ve thrown most of the recent tournaments due to badly timed bluffs. I threw at least two today where I was chip leader for a long time. Both thrown in the mid to late stages where each blind was pretty important. Kicking myself but it’s also good to learn. Doesn’t mean I won’t do it again though :smile:

Here, I just hit Aces full of 8s playing A4s, and took down a good pot. BUT PLAYING A4 IS BAD POKER.

Next hand, I’m dealt KT, flop QJ. Get bet off at the turn after paying a lot to see the Turn and missing, river is an Ace that I’m no longer in the hand for, trip Jacks wins the hand. Correct play, except I could have just gave it up on the flop because NEVER EVER PLAY ANY OESD TODAY, FOLD THAT JUNK TO NO PRESSURE IT’S A MIRAGE aggravating outcome.

AJo giveaway, probably a good laydown here, he is a good player and raising like he has a pair.

Raised off K9s after opening 3BB to 450.

Getting chips this time:

Big win on AKs FINALLY

https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/502719502

Wheel straight win:

https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/502719656

Call a semi-bluff shove on a flush draw, while holding top pair, and knock out #3 finisher to take the big stack:

Winning on 55, calling a bluff on a scary flop and lucking out:

https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/502721399

Back to the BS.

Opening hand at a new game. Quad Jacks cripples two players playing high broadways:

Next hand, I get AK. I figure I’ll pick off the small stack to my left, and open their exact chip stack. The other cripple stack goes all in as well, and a 4th player comes along for good measure. JFC!

Small stack has AA and quadruples up.

I give up after that, and miss an inside straight to get out of the table.

ANOTHER ONE.

AA UTG, limp intending to limp-raise, no one raises we all see a cheap flop. Flop is dry as can be, but first to act bets half pot and is called by the 2nd, I’m third, I bet the pot, raising to over 1000, entire table folds around to the SB, who calls. They shove the turn, and I call, they have two pair, I have one pair, the mighty Aces. The river pairs the board, giving me a better two pair oh wait they now have a full house. FML.

Do you think he’s in this hand if I get to raise up to 300 or so preflop? Of course not. But I guarantee I buy the blinds and net 120 chips for my Aces if I make that play. “Better than losing your stack!”

Here’s my latest classy exit.

QQ called by A-suited, I’m halfway all in on the flop, shove, get called, Turns a flush to knock me out. 2nd A-high flush in a row for this player, who knocked out the player to my right on the previous hand:

Maybe this might cheer you up… here is a reasonable hand I had at my current table, I think we both enjoyed it… Hand #502736926 · Replay Poker

I had 7J of clubs if it doesn’t show up

Losing with AA sucks. A good adjustment might be not to limp it

YEAH I KNOW DON’T LIMP AA.

Wow fair enough that does really sound like a terrible run

I get AA or AK or AQ or QQ+ every tiem UTG, and lose out on so many chips by raising and buying the blinds all the time, I figured maybe just this once I’ll try limp-raising and get something more than 1.5BB, and the game shoves it right up my rear.

When your open range is this nitty, you have to get value out of these hands, and getting dealt them in early position constantly is horrible.

I want to go to one of those places where they let you break stuff in a padded room for an hour. I’m like 2 for 15 on the day now. Haven’t even looked at my bankroll in the last hour, probably down about 500K.