I open with A6s, get two callers. Flop gives me an inside straight draw and a flush draw. First to act bets half pot, and is called by second to act. I decide to try to raise, even though I haven’t made any hand, on the strength of my draws, hoping to close the hand. First to act snap shoves, and is called by 2nd to act. I go all in as well, not really how I wanted this hand to go, but the pot’s too big now, and I draw blanks on the turn and river. Well, I pair my 6, but I miss my draws. Out 8th in 1 hand.
Your open built a bigger pot, with a hand you will mostly have to fold. If you flop a 6, there’s probably going to be an overcard. If you flop an ace and get action, you are probably out-kicked. A6 is one of the weakest ace combos. At least A2-A5 have a little wheel potential.
Half pot bet and called, and you min raise thinking that will end the hand? The bettor was getting 6-1 on a call, he’s never folding to a min raise. But he shoved, got called, and at that point, there was 6k in the pot and cost you 1600, so yeah, you had to call.
You are playing too hard, trying to make stuff happen. Well, stuff happened. There will be at least 2 or 3 calling stations early in a 9 seat SnG. You can’t force the action against them without a hand. You just can’t.
Good analysis. I am still not sizing my bets correctly, and playing draws that don’t hit is a great way to lose. Unless you make them. Or unless you can fold everyone out.
I figured, people are always raising me off of pots, maybe I can do it to someone else? Maybe not on the first hand. Maybe only when I have 2 pair on the flop. I swear, when I have 2 pair on the flop, they check, and fold to a min-bet.
But in this hand, maybe I just needed to bet bigger, you think? Should I have shoved here in response to the raise? Would QJ nothing fold there? Would top pair 8s continue? Tough to say. Calling stations, as you say. Maniac shoves are starting to come back in style this week. Idiot calls are making a strong showing too.
I guess I could have just check-called to the river, saw the draws miss, and think to myself “Well if I’d bet on the flop, I might have gotten it there” and muck my 6s.
Pretty much everything @SunPowerGuru said. A6s is too weak to open MP1 in full ring SnG. On the flop donk bets are generally weak so I don’t mind a shove here with tons of equity and being the pre flop raiser hopefully some fold equity to go with it. I also don’t mind a call closing the action but you have to fold to a turn bet on bricks. Min raise here doesn’t accomplish anything in my opinion, it’s better than folding though… Cheers Pugs!
I know A6 is a weak Ace, but I was really only playing this hand for the flush potential. Which it had. Know what a potential flush pays out? NOTHING! Lol.
If I get just an Ace or just a 6 here, I am going to play cautiously. If I flop two pair, or trip 6s, I’m good. But very unlikely. If I flop a flush, I’m good, but again very unlikely. But just an Ace or just a 6, no.
On this flop, I guess I could try raising harder, maybe even shove to get folds, or else double up or bow out in 1, but as has been pointed out, it seems really bad to do in the early stages of the game, when the players who are likely to call a shove with a hand like a pair of 8s are likely to be sitting in on a pair of 8s.
The reason I did raise, I’ve been in same situation on the other end of it many times: bet two broadway cards, flop zilch, c-bet hoping anyone still in after the open bet I laid out would muck it. And that’s happened lots! I’ve won piles of chips this way. Small pots. But they add up.
But lately, players are raising when I make a bet like that, forcing me to muck it, so this time I decided to try it. I wanted to see what it felt like. I guess maybe it doesn’t work so well without a made hand. But I really wasn’t expecting to get jammed. Certainly not called by both players. I expected if both were in though, either I’m going to make my draw and clean them both out, or I’ll lose the hand. If I just lay down here, I’m down half my stack for nothing, and look weak.
Once I did get jammed, I felt I couldn’t let the hand go. If I do, I look like a chump, and my table image is that if you raise me, I’ll fold. I didn’t want to have that image, so it was worth it to me to go out in 1 hand if I had to protect it. And if I doubled or tripled up in the first hand, that would have set me up pretty to cruise to a money finish.
Well no, at that point, it cost you 1600 to win a pot of 6k. You had the nut flush draw and an inside straight draw and even your ace might have been good if you hit. You were also blocking all 3 of the possible straight flush draws. You shouldn’t fold there, but got yourself into a situation you shouldn’t have been in!
Calling so you don’t look like chump is an interesting strategy. Why do you care if random strangers think you’re a chump? I go out of my way to make my opponents think I’m a chump!
Yes, a strategy - I have found that on Replay it is best to NEVER get pot committed no matter what two cards you are holding, unless they are the nuts with no draw remaining, or no chance of being outdrawn.
Again, my thinking was if I fold here, than anyone paying attention at the table will, for the duration of the game, shove on me any time I bet any hand, and I’ll have to fold away more hands, losing more chips.
I’d rather lose on the first hand, walk away from the table, and find another table, than try to survive at that table with a short stack and a reputation of folding to a shove after committing a lot of chips to a big raise.
Yes, I would agree I shouldn’t have been in the situation. I made a justifiable call and the outcome just wasn’t good, but I shouldn’t have been there. The raise got me in trouble, and I did it to myself. I’m not kicking myself over it. But I am galled to see what people are shoving with (two overcards, only QJ, no made hand, their best possible draw being two Queens), and what they’re calling shoves with (top pair, eights).
Hey Puggy,
There 's , umm… player cred and table cred… publically saying in good faith that you “tend” to get raised off pots, just shot to heck… your player cred against raises…
Early on in a SnG, establishing table cred is essential and so is reading your opponents correctly. SnG’s very quickly develop varience that needs to be exploited.
Maybe your bet sizing is not working, maybe you do fold too quickly to a raise…what it sounds like to me is that you’re “pressing” incorrectly, especially in the 1st few hands.
Is it a possibility, that as some players see and get used to your small-ball pot wins, they see your pattern of try’n to buy the pot, and start trying to deny you of your bluff winning ???
Well, @least that was just those in that SnG, now the whole forum might start looking to exploit your tendancy to fold to a raise, but I just noticed Puggy …
I Talked privately with you on HU play, where bully’n surely has to be dealt with from both players… but now it seems its almost the same thing in the 1st few hands… You don’t like being bullied and its a problem for you, I guess… iono.
What about those players that might give you cred for raising with a good hand, and correctly letting go of it when its pointless to try and force the issue ( hand ). Not only can you use the agression against you, to your benefit when you get a “crusher” hand… and It does send the msg, that you’re not just gonna donk off your chips… therefore if you’re still in the hand, you prolly have a reason to be …
What you “think” we think of you can really mess up your game. Quit overthink’n this, There are always hands where you bet out or raise… and have to let your hand go. Even I have a problem sometimes with proper bet sizing, maybe take a lesson from Judo here, use your opponents agression to your advantage… Giggle in the process.
Unlike a MTT, if you’re playing in a SnG, and 2-4 players wanna donk out in the 1st few hands, your odds just got alot better cause usually only 1 person beat them, thus only 1 person has the chip adv on you…and even small variances in stacks give you “betting power”…
Recently Puggy, I went all blonde 1 hand… Totally miss’d the fact that the river counterfieted my Full House, and shoved anyway … I lost 2.7m chips on 1 hand, all because I was stupid ( and pretty buzz’d ), but I misplay’d that hand 10 ways to sunday in retrospect… I stuck myself in a posistion where I shouldn’t have been, then made that worse by shoving even more chips where they didnt belong. I was having a fantastic table up to that point… ( good thing 2.2m of that was house money and I really only lost 500k ) … We all make mistakes from time to time.
Are you tring to win the Battle too often, and therefore losing the War ???
Cheers Pugs!