What do you believe?

Off Topic
44

That’s entirely true. But when it comes to the point of actually holding a true belief - not an opinion, not a passing fancy, but a true belief - is that power of free will really there?

Can you honestly choose anything other than the ONE that you truly believe in? And if there was only ONE honest “choice” that could be made among many other possibilities, was there ever a “choice” at all to be made?

This is the kind of stuff I used to stay up late nights getting drunk and talking about with other self absorbed idiots. We were young, we were stupid, and we knew everything!!! Now we’re old, still stupid, and know nothing.

We could write a book or do a podcast on this. Alas, no one would read it (or listen to it), but we could do it.

45

Not interested in going down that rabbit hole. I have more important things to due, like live my life believing what I choose to believe.

It’s all a choice.

46

elv, my impression is that some of your views occur to me as defeatus, void of empowerment and accountability.

I am not sure I understand the distinction between an opinion and a belief. I have always understood an opinion to be an expression of one’s belief at the time.

And to your question: “Can you honestly choose anything other than the ONE that you truly believe in?” I will proffer that at some point, you made a choice to believe whatever it is you believe today. And, you have the potential to change your belief about something, at anytime you find that you have a justification in your reasoning process to do so - again, that would also be a choice.

1 Like
47

Choose this !

IMG_0552
IMG_0552673×850 153 KB

48

Or this :slight_smile:

4 Likes
49

First - not trying to change anyone’s mind - I just enjoy the discussion.

Having said that, I can discern a big difference between what are my opinions and what are my beliefs. Maybe that’s the difference here.

For me, a belief is something I hold that, as far as I am concerned, is unshakable (that is, until it is shook - but it would take one hell of a shake)

Everything else is opinion, preference, like, love, etc., whatever you want to call it. Things that can change much, much easier than any of my beliefs. Things where I can choose this today, and change my mind and choose that tomorrow.

But if we can’t discern opinions from beliefs, let’s go with that - whatever one believes, no matter how deep or shallow, is a “belief.”

  1. I believe I beleive the color blue to be a superior color to yellow. (Lying - it’s green all the way)
  2. I believe the Earth is round.
  3. I believe in God, even though I equally believe I have absolutely no understanding of God and nor does anyone else.

The first “belief” is something I could choose to change in the next second or hour or day or week.

The second “belief” I could no more choose to change than I could choose to be a T-Rex when I wake up tomorrow. (though I gotta admit, that would be AWESOME!!!) If you say I “chose” to believe it, well, that’s just not true. I was (and am still) compelled - by the evidence I accept as true - to believe it. I had absolutely no choice in the matter if I were to stay true to myself. (interestingly, a true, never gonna change flat-earther could say the exact same thing and they would not be wrong - about the concept of “choice” in this particular belief, that is. About the earth, hoo-boy.)

Then there are all kinds of “beliefs” that sit in the gray area of this topic. That’s the third one. That discussion gets waaaaaaay too deep and shan’t be had here!

Having said all that (and I realize it was a lot - I can get wordy), Personally I do not think all three of the above examples are what I would call “beliefs.”

50

But hey - in the end…

1 Like
51

For the record, I don’t think free will is a thing either.

Faced with the exact same background and circumstances, we would make the same “choice” each time.

This is like a pRNG. It’s “psudo” for a reason. Given the exact same starting conditions and operating environment, it will generate the same number every time.

52

As a non practicing Board Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist now, I can absolutely assure you there is “ Free Will “. One cannot become Hypnotized if you cannot break their free will to change their Belief System.

1 Like
53

Touche’

1 Like
54

That’s it right there !!!

55

I’m sure you believe that.

It seems to me that hypnosis works on the subconscious mind.

The subconscious certainly shapes our views, but operates totally without “choice” or “free will.” The subconscious is, by definition, beyond awareness. How can one choose between options of which they are not aware?

Thanks for confirming that one can’t choose what to believe though. :slight_smile:

1 Like
56

You cannot break free will unless the mind is willing. If the mind does not want to except “ suggestions “ then it just not going to happen. That’s how the subconscious mind protects us.

1 Like
57

I must not have a human mind if your statement is true, because everything I believe was not made up or borrowed from anyone. My belief’s were a Gift from the Lord My God and provides me with with all, the knowledge needed for all beliefs in this world.

1 Like
58

Well amen. I would suggest then lit, that your statement here represents but one of the beliefs you have chosen to adopt and accept as a true belief of your own. I make no judgement about it, not contesting whether it is factually correct or not, but merely that I do accept that it is your belief.

If I may ask, is that something you heard or read somewhere, or is that a conclusion you reached for yourself?

1 Like
59

One can never reach a conclusion by their self, must have some form of help, which I think I already mentioned.

60

Thank you.

1 Like
61

I believe all paths are valid and eventually lead back to the Creator. I wrote the following poem a few years ago. I hope it resonates with you.

Time passes effortlessly one day after the other in an endless stream of dreams or so it seems. Sparks flying in all directions each on their own path. Thrust into life, burning brightly , illuminating the darkness, giving way easily, coming and going in the dance we call life… “dos-rios” 2019

2 Likes
62

In fact now that I think about it you’re example actually disproves free will, as you cannot will yourself to disbelieve something you believe or vice versa, you can only change your mind based on additional external influences.

1 Like
63

One must have one’s basic needs met in order to enjoy the luxury of what we “believe.” A person without a roof over their head, access to water, a toilet and a reliable source of daily sustenance can scarcely afford these rather whimsical notions. All the more reason that those of us who enjoy relatively secure existences should never take for granted what we have.

As far as the universe is concerned, what we believe is irrelevant, only in our own minds do we believe we matter. In the time it takes the cosmos to make a proverbial cup of coffee, countless generations of humans have come and gone. None of us will be remembered after a few thousand years, and most will not be remembered at all. We are but a flash in a pan and we are gone. So enjoy it while you’ve got life because we have all eternity to sleep.

1 Like