It's just bad play

He didn’t hesitate :grin:

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haha, great idea for a replay tutorial indeed. some people can really use it :slight_smile:

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Why the concern? As in any form of poker, bad play is exploitable. You’re going to take a few bad beats, sure but in the long run bad players are where your chips come from.

It’s also a matter of adjustment. In real money games whether live or online you have to make adjustments to the table, to other players (and your position relative to them), to the type of game you are playing and to the stage of the game you are currently in. Replay is no different…just that the adjustments you make are not necessarily the same as those you would make in real money games.

For example, in early MTT you raise utg with a monster, everyone calls and you end up losing the pot to a suck out. Are you going to raise utg again for a while? Good luck with that.

Again in early MTT, calling an all-in is not compulsory. If there are multiple callers before me, I’ll even consider folding AA.

Keep your powder dry for the later stages. Then you can begin to use a more normal strategy as players are less inclined to go bingo on your ass. :smiley:

Patience is a major virtue in any form of the game, on Replay it’s paramount. Yes, you’ll see bad players suck out but just how many of them do you ever see at the final table?

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I couldn’t agree more @rustyblade. But adjustment and game strategies aside, it’s always good and fun to talk about bad play and bad beats, especially when they’re everywhere and multiplying :laughing:

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He had a straight on the turn, I would’ve done the same.

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I’m not a very good player, but I have my moments.
When I call a big blind and somebody comes back with a minimum raise, if I fold, I must have been just fishing with my call in the first place. My bad, not his.
If I call the raise anyway, I deserve to get beaten. If I had the nutz to begin with, I should have raised.
I spend WAY more time concentrating on my play than on the competition, too much some times. :slight_smile:

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@ZZ_Tilt Have you ever played Royal Poker before? A straight in royal is one of the worst hands you can get. His straight was worthless. And any good royal player would have folded at the flop with his cards.

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I respectfully disagree @Grateful_ed. I believe WAY more time should be spent concentrating on the competition in poker. Most of the game is about reading your opponents, and your play, strategy and moves all vary accordingly.

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@ Maya: If you believe that is how YOU should play, I couldn’t agree more. If you respectfully disagree that’s how I should play, I respectfully disagree with you.
As long as we’re being respectful, it’s all good. :wink:

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If you’re paying attention to your opponent in Royal or in Holdem for that matter, and I know you are, a straight beats a high card, a pair, two pair, and three of a kind. If you’re watching the table, and I know you are, you can reduce the odds of betting against a full house or a flush. There is no need to know what’s in your opponent’s head if you know what you have and what your opponent doesn’t have.

Respectfully,
-ed :sunglasses:

@Grateful_ed In Royal there is no high card, pair, or three of a kind.
The hands in Royal are either 2 pair (almost never wins), straight (rarely wins), full house (common), quads (also much more common than Hold’em), or royal flush (rare). These are the only hands you can have in Royal. You can’t compare Royal to Hold’em.
Having said that, the example I gave was about Royal poker, where any average player who gets Q-J and sees A-A-K flop would fold to ANY bet, let alone an all in.
I’m not sure what you mean by “not needing to know what’s in your opponent’s head if you know what you have and what your opponent doesn’t have”, but I guarantee you that what works for you in Hold’em doesn’t work the same way in Royal, or in Omaha for that matter :wink:

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I guess that’s why we play the game Maya. I for one am not ready to deal the hole cards, turn them over and declare a winner based on only those two cards.
Sure, sometimes we’re betting and sometimes we’re just gambling. Either way Maya, I respect your thoughts and would love to meet you on the felt again sometime.
Cheers,
-ed

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No, my bad. I had to google what Royal Poker is about.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_hold_%27em

Hand rankings from highest to lowest in royal hold 'em:

Royal flush (The only flush possible)
Four of a kind
Full house
Straight
Three of a kind
Two pair

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I can offer two possible reasons, especially in ring games why players might use this ploy, Maya. Lets take say a… 50/100 table with a 20k buyin. ( 100/200 … 50k buyin )… and you get someone raise’n to 300 every (90%++) hand preflop.
In the 1st case, this player has effictively changed the blinds to 50/300 because the table quickly see’s, this player plays with ANY 2 cards. This benefits him by disguising good hands, that then he can exploit post-flop, allows for bluff’n with basic crap cards, and does catch some flops nicely with those same crap cards. By changing the blinds, less is need’d to rebuy back onto the table versus price to play any 1 hand. that person can now play 200-300 blinds without buy’n in for 50k, and only risk’n 20k or less.
In the 2nd case, this is a PLO tactic. Basically in PLO or any PL game, you do want to get the pot to a point where you can push people off weaker hands. The only way to do that is to pot-build, so that a future “pot it” is big enough to scare off your competition. Now… applied to Hold’em on a ring table, this can explain players who frequently “pot-build” even tho it is NL… they want a decent pot out there should whatever they have connect with the flop. on that 500/100 table a 300 raise is only 3x the bb… thats almost FL territory.

I am not speaking to players who bet 40x the BB or more, or really bingo players… I’m sure there might be more explanations, but those two … are to that I can see as valid “possible” reasons to raise almost all the time.

I hope that helps in any way , Maya
Sassy

@ZZ_Tilt There is no 3 of a kind in Royal. The information you have is not correct or incomplete. If we’re talking about a complete hand, after the river, there is no way a hand is 3 of a kind. However, if everyone folds before the river, and the winner shows his/her cards, there is a possibility of 3 of a kind in an incomplete hand. Example: if you have pocket aces and the flop is A-K-Q, you go all in and everyone folds, you show your cards and it’s 3 of a kind. But if you wait until the river, there is no way you will have anything less than a straight. So the ONLY possibility of trips is when everyone folds before the river.

But if you wish to go with this logic, then 1 pair is also possible. If you get A-K for example and the flop is A-Q-J and you go all in and everybody else folds, if you show your cards, you have 1 pair there. These particular cases are not complete hands and depend on everyone folding before the river, therefore should not be considered. 1 pair and 3 of a kind do not exist in Royal Poker. I’m sorry that Wikipedia got it wrong this time.

If you feel like reading and learning more about Royal, I recommend this thread here on Replay, which is much more helpful than Wikipedia: Royal Poker Advice

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Hey Sassy :slight_smile:
Thank you. I see the benefit of that strategy in the situations you mentioned. In PL games it makes sense. In ring games, although it benefits this particular player in playing higher blinds with a lower buy-in, I’m sure it still angers the others who have bought into the game for exactly the blinds it offers and don’t want to keep betting higher every single hand. But again, maybe it is not a very bad strategy in ring games.
However, I’m not much of a ring game person, and I mostly play tourneys (if not always). My question/complaint was about that strategy being used in tourneys. I’ve never seen any benefit for any player who uses it in a tournament, and there are always complaints coming from other players at the table about that constant minimum raise preflop (sometimes continuing postflop till river). I personally think it’s just bad play. What do you think?
Maya

Well Maya,
I’m a firm believer, that … Limp + Check = Bad things happen to good cards. Also, nothing good comes from free cards. Having said that, and thinking my answer was ring based, there are prolly some MTT reasons for this play.
For starters, lets say a player (1st hand) doubles thru a donk. Now, uses thier newfound chips to thier advantage. Making everyone pay a lil more every hand for awhile, increasing any normal chipstack variances and compounding them. Unless this player also wins a few along the way to offset the xtra each hand, they can’t sustain this for very long. If however they dbbl thru again, or just start collecting ppl… they then can do this indeffinitly…lolol.
Next off, I still see a possible advantage to playing a PL approach in a NL MTT. It just mess’s with the competition, so if they aren’t rdy for it it will be hard to adapt to for them. Again, unless you keep winning a few pots, you can’t sustain this either. This also covers any strategy that is basic “pot-building” for any reason, not just PL.

A good chunk of poker, is obtaining and using information gathered thru gameplay. Its also about situational adapatation and explotation of the rest of the players. What I do know Maya, is ( even from me )… that sometimes, complaints are born from frustration.

Just as we players remember far more “bad beats” than we do “good beats”, we also mix up “bad play” with " why are these ppl mess’n with how I wanna play "… ( lololol ) [[ ( Comedy comming ) How dare they keep raise’n, when all we wanna do is limp the pot, see a flop, then check a few streets… how dare they !!.. ( roflmao ) ]] … I enjoy all the different ways ppl decide to play , or mis-play poker hands. I enjoy trying to understand other ppls strategies… hey, maybe I’ll learn a new trick or two…

In the end Maya, I see MTTs as a breeding ground for all different types of play. The faster I identify each player, the faster I can exploit them or watch the heck out for them. None of us can control other ppls play ( no matter how hard I try, lolol ) but have you also noticed… most of those ppl that also hate all those tiny raises, usually are cheapskates that just don’t wanna pull the trigger on the hand… ( not to mention any xtra wierdness in gameplay due to leaderboard mgmt )

I agree there is such a thing as bad poker, I hate it as much as you do… but at a certain point, you gotta just move past it… dont ya ? We all know that a Chipstack is a weapon, noone likes to be shot @. No 1 style of poker really works,… unless you write it yourself, make it into a book, get everyone to play exactly that way, and because you created it… you know all the exploits and can just rule uncontested.

I have noticed Maya, the longer I have played… the more I just expect others to play a certain way depending on thier goal. What I don’t remind myself enuff, is there are new players to online poker, and they do make rookie mistakes, and they do other rookie stuff, and when I was them… I tried the same crap…maybee thats your answer, you’ve been playing so long, you just expect everyone to play like you do @ that level of play and have the same basic understanding that you now have…iono.

I really hope that helps, I’m almost more confuzed now after writing it.
Sassy

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I’ll get back to you in a few days, when I’m done reading :laughing:

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i before e except after c