Donk hand or something else?

I was accused of having a donk hand- therefore calling me a donk. What do you think? hand 575822073

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no. player with JJ needed to raise preflop. his fault for limping and allowing you to play 8,6.

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Welcome to the forum, landman!

First off, what is a donk hand… no such thing, in the poker world anyway. The word donk is a term used to describe a bet from oop into a preflop raiser. This is called a donk bet, there is no donk hand though. Bad players, fish or players on tilt misapply the term frequently. Furthermore your bet into the field on the flop would not classify as a donk bet because no one raised pre flop so no one had the betting lead or initiative.

The hand… Top up, if you don’t have bankroll to play 100 bb’s deep then drop down in stakes, always keep topped up to at a minimum 100 bb’s.

Just fold 86o pre flop… it plays terribly with tons of RIO in a multi-way pot and you’ll lose tons of chips/money by completing with this off suit combo. This is amplified by the fact you have 25bb’s and are out of position to three other players.

As played bet smaller on the flop… large sizing will greatly narrow V’s range to hands that are beating you… same for turn bet, after getting called half pot in two spots on the flop we can continue on this card for small sizing but I prefer to x/c and x/f river unimproved.

NH

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You played that hand poorly, though so did @4theville.

For starters, to echo @wildpokerdude, on the button he should have raised JJ. That’s a premium starting hand, and he shouldn’t want to play against three other competitors and risk an overcard on the flop. I’m not a huge fan of limping 86o in the small blind either - it’s a very weak hand that won’t often be in great shape postflop, and you’ll be out of position for the rest of the hand.

On the flop, I don’t like your decision to lead out with a half-pot bet. If you’re doing this with a hand as weak as middle pair with a weak kicker and a gutshot, then you’re probably leading out way too often. Also, it would put you in a rough spot if someone raises you… as @4theville should have done with his overpair facing a SB bet and a BB flat. Best to check-call and hope for a 5.

Similar on the turn - you still have only second pair, why are you betting full pot? Worse hands aren’t going to call. Bluffs are going to have to get through two players that not only saw a flop, but called a half-pot bet there.

Finally, the river bet is pretty bad. Any 5 has made a straight, and if the villain was planning to bluff-bet to a check on the river with a hand like T9, he’s now made a straight as well. The club flush also got there. Two pair is too weak to be betting for value here; I’d look to check-call based on earlier action.

But hey, congrats on getting lucky.

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The price to complete (7:1) seems reasonable for a 1 gapper, even off suit. 6-8 and 7-9 are often fun hands to play becuase they tend to be disguised when they hit big, but you bring up a good point about being out of position. However, 4 handed in a presumably passive game that’s not the worst call.

Leading with middle pair and a gutshot semi-bluff against 3 other players yet to act is… let’s just call it ambitious. And if he’s going to bet, 1/2 pot is probably going to price in some of the hands hero would prefer to fold… Like you say, I could see calling with that, but leading with it when first to act is going to lead to trouble more often than not. Maybe lead the turn if it checks around?

To me the river is actually the tricky part. My initial reaction is similar to yours in that it is an obvious check because every draw EXCEPT the one hero is chasing gets there. My original thought was should it be check-call or more likely a check-fold? But because he’s so short-stacked (another mistake), he’s actually not getting horrible odds. He doesn’t have to be right that often. I wouldn’t think there would be overpairs to get value from (and i wouldn’t expect them to call if they were even there), but the results show that there are, so that’s what’s screwing it up. Is there actually value to count on here? I think it’s turning 2 pair into a bluff, but it might not be as horrible as it seems initially.

Edit to add: I’m not even going to talk about the one flatting with JJ pre and then not re-raising with it post. That’s a horrible hand multi-way. It needs protection. Any overs and you’re in dangerous waters, and as we see in this hands, even boards full of unders are frought with danger when you let everyone in with 2 random cards. There are a ton of people around here that seem to think they’re extra clever by being totally passive and trapping with big pocket pairs. Sure every once in a while I pay them off big, but in reality they let too many other hands realize their equity and don’t build pots for when they do win.

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Thank you all for your advise and hand review. All appreciated!

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Go Mariners!!

Thank you for clarifying what the term “donk” actually means. I was in a hand after the flop, where I called an “all in” bet knowing I was slightly behind, but with many outs-Including flush and straight draws, which I believe made me the favorite. After winning the hand a remark came from one of the players saying how many “wild Donks” are at the table tonight. I simply remarked that a donk is a bet. Heard nothing else back from him… Its nice to be able to educate people- especially when they are calling people what they think are bad names at the table. lol. Thanks again!

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People are dumb… just nod and smile.

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Evidence of Altzheimers: Welcoming Landman to the forum two days in a row. Indeed, welcome again! lol

Actually the term “donk” by itself refers to a “donkey” or a poor player. Somewhere along the line, the specific action of leading OOP into the previous street aggressor got to be termed a “Donk Bet” because in most situations it is ill-advised and typically something a poor player (a “Donk”) might do. (Yes, I know there are cases where it is a correct play, but they are far fewer than the number of times it is done).

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Thanks Jancee!

woohoo