I’ve noticed that there are a lot of limpers on this site, even among those who are “high stakes” players. Once I decide that I have a playable hand, depending on my position, EP, MP, or LP, my standard preflop raise is around 3x. People are always complaining in the chat about me being a “pot builder” or “bully”, I’ve even been called an A-hole. It’s not sound strategy to let everyone see the flop, that’s how bingo players end up getting lucky. I’m just wondering if other players who understand the importance of preflop raising have experienced this too? Sorry to get on my soap box, but limpers, especially those who complain about preflop raisers, just kind of annoy me.
at low stakes people love to limp into the pot and play their 20/20/20 game to the river.
When you come to the table and make a standard open raise, you are bringing this type of players out of their comfort zone. I guess that is why they call you a “bingo player”, “bully” or even worse…
I’ve heard a lot of this at low stake tables.
Of course there are a lot of “real bullys” at low stake tables, making it 25BB with every two cards.
The passive fish just put you in one category with these, when you make a standard open raise.
Although there is no right or wrong way to play poker, I guess it is common sense that playing 87% of the deck, limping into the pot, calling, putting 20 in a pot of 500, calling again and hoping to find that 7 on the river, is not a strategy promising great success…
That is why you will be always be ahead of those players, when you tighten your range to sth. like 30%-35% (still very loose…) of hands and raise preflop especially from the button or cutoff.
I don’t make it too big at low stakes cos you want to keep them in the pot with their K8o from UTG.
They call with everything, and they just don’t fold…
You can triple barrel and they will call, call, call with top pair + weak kicker or their missed draws.
Once in while you might run into a suckout on the river, cos they actually find one of their two outs.
That’s the “fishtax” you have to pay and the reason why these players are still playing poker.
When they shove the river, they have it 98% of the time…
Sometimes it’s hard not to enter tilt mode in these situations, but it’s worth staying calm and cashing them off the next 20 hands…
They limp because they’re bad. They complain because they don’t like being uncomfortable and that’s exactly how you make them feel. Just stick to your raise or fold strategy and you’ll be flying up the rank ladder faster than a speeding bullet. When you do get a little higher where you will encounter some raisers keep this strategy working. Raise/3! or fold.
Haha, just looked at your profile and you have in your bio “Combating limpers since 1875.” Very funny.
Why so many limpers?
Its free poker. Duh.
Nobody shivers over the prospect of putting pretend chips into a pretend pot. If you want your poker tables to look like there is actual money at stake, you have to play where there is actual money at stake.
plus its free so players gonna call regardless raise/bet. it makes easier to limp and be safe. in real poker they fold that same hand in a heartbeat.
Yeah, I am still very good for my age
Ok, thanks for the feedback. I’m trying to work my way up from the bottom, currently I’m playing 10k-25k SNG, I guess once I get up above 100k-500k there will be less of that. I just play for fun and to refine my strategy for when I’m at live tables. The “fishtax”, I like that one.
Actually it is not that bad to limp behind in certain situations at low stake games and take advantage of the passiveness.
Limping behind with small or medium pocket pairs can be quite profitable, imho.
It will basically cost you 8 BB for seeing 8 flops and making a set at these games…
When you raise them, you most likely put yourself in a pretty difficult situation.
And of course you can limp in from the blinds basically for free in these games with every two bricks.
There is also very little need of balancing your play, as they will still call your value bet, no matter you came around with the nuts 12 times in a row…
It’s interesting that you bring up this scenario because set mining is something I’ve been struggling with. Sometimes I don’t feel comfortable raising 3x with baby pairs, but I feel weak limping behind just to see a flop. I guess the difference there is that I’m not ATC, at least there’s about a 12% chance of me flopping a set (unless my math is wrong)
Limping is endemic on this site, even at the higher levels. I was playing in the Grand-Daddy Of Them All 5-million chip buy-in tournament last night, and believe me, there was plenty of limping.
The trouble is that if you raise, the limpers will all call, to a man (or woman), so raising may not achieve what you want it to achieve. whatever that is.
Just remember that many of the players here are elderly retirees who play online poker just to pass the time, and that if they spend too many chips, they may have to buy some new ones, so it might be costing them money.
I have very occasionally been called names, like donkey one time. Another time a player said in the comments like I seemed like I enjoyed bullying people. I said “yes, that’s right I love it” and knocked him or her out on the next hand. But it seems to happen fairly rarely. I would just laugh it off.
By the way, players on RP get rated as “High Stakes” at a very low level. I don’t know if you are playing ring games or tournaments, but in the MTTs you can forget about anything with a buy-in of less than 250,000 except for practicing certain moves to improve your game. Even in the 250,000 games, a lot of the players just use them as practice for the higher entry games.
Good luck. The best way to beat the limpers is to beat them.
Yeah, I think a lot of players think that raising pre flop is a donk move, when in reality, it’s the exact opposite. I had one guy taunt me for “running from his raises” on the flop after I raised pre flop. I didn’t think it was worth my time to explain to him the concepts of equity and pot odds, but it just annoyed me that he thought he was muscling me out, when in reality I was recalculating my equity and pot odds on every street. I guess I just need to get over it and play my game. It’s good to know there are people on here who understand sound poker strategy and are not just throwing chips around willy nilly.
The trick is to use sound poker strategy, but give people the impression that you are throwing chips around willy-nilly. The soundest poker strategy is to win by any legal means, or failing that cheat.
However, it is very tricky. Is it more profitable to play AK preflop like you have AA or KK, or do you limp in to surprise your opponents when the flop hits you.? If the flop comes with an A or K, then you can play the flop as if you have AA or KK, because you do. But two thirds of the time, that will not be the case, so then what do you do if you are up against a donkey or a stubborn mule with a lot of chips in the pot. On the lower levels of RP, no one ever folds to a bluff and if they shove the flop, they nearly always have the hand they are representing.
No one can ever know what the quality of play is on Replay Poker, because there is no basis for comparison. Poker is not a credentialed enterprise that awards bachelors and master’s degrees, and even in the fanciest event of them all the World Series of Poker Main Event, anyone who has $10,000 can enter and there are celebrities who enter just to be seen. If someone like Michael Jordan entered the US Open golf tournament, he would be elimininated in a pre-pre-qualifying event and would never be seen on the course at the Main Event.
There is also an incredible amount of luck in poker tournaments. I would say that luck outweighs skill. It is quite possible for an amateur qualifier to make the final table of the WSOP and also quite likely that many top class pros will not make it to the end of day one. Whereas, in the US Open golf, it is generally unexpected that top 20 players in the world will miss the 2-day cut. It can happen if they are off form, or get the worst of the weather conditions, but it is a disappointment and not a good idea to bet on it.
The WSOP often throws up interesting winners, but it should never be a surprise that out of thousands of players, one will eventually win. Even if you had 5000 donkeys in a tournament, one would eventually win.
(Obviously you do have to understand the game pretty well to win the WSOP, but how good do you really have to be?)
You can definitely make it if you study the game and try to improve. 16 months ago I started on this site with 2500 chips, or whatever they give you to start and eventually worked up to higher levels. I still make stupid mistakes all the time, but am getting better.
You’re allowed to fold pairs pre flop. You’ll never catch me on Replay but when I’m playing live I’ll often fold pairs pre flop… especially if there are sub 100 bb stacks on the table or aggressive tables. For example I don’t open 22-66 UTG FR 1/3 300 max or 2/5 500 max but I will at 2/3 600 max and 2/5 1K max. I’ll limp 22 OTB if the table dynamics are good for it but I almost always fold 22 in the CO.
don’t let bad players tell you how to play… just nod and smile with healthy dose of nh sir and yeah you got me, ouch.
“The majority of your opponents will be losing players… Until you are playing in a fashion that they disapprove of, all you have gained is the approval of losers” - Alex Fitzgerald
LOL, @1Warlock I just saw this quote in your bio on the game site and was literally coming back to edit my comment by adding this quote from “your page”
I personally do not enjoy playing with those who simply like to “pound the pot” before the flop. Yes you can get a lot of people out; but you may find over the long run that you are taking more risks and getting less rewards. To me; poker is a calculated strategy of taking advantage of the odds presented. And the flop is the key to maximizing your odds or getting a clearer picture of a potential hand.
I love having someone pound the table when I know that I have the best hand. There is a joy in disappointing them at the end.
I think that preflop betting is putting more emphasis on luck than skill.Sort of like the race between the turtle and the rabbit.
When I run into tables where the preflop bets are extremely high, I simply move on to another table. Have fun doing that if you like.
Very well said