Thin Value Betting Against Calling Stations

How thin of a value bet can you make against people who will call you down with ace high/nothing? Also, can you bet the turn or should I have just checked it?

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Sure, as calling ranges get wider, so to value betting ranges. Note I’m not sure what cards you actually had, but I’m imagining something like KJs or QQ? Whether or not you should bet the turn depends quite a bit on your exact holding, though with most hands without an ace, with two opponents I’m probably switching to a defensive line and mostly checking here.

On the river, your classic calling station typically does not bluff very often. If you’ve seen this player bluff a lot, then that is something else, but I’ll typically default to assuming a player like this won’t have that many bluffs in range, making the river a pretty easy fold.

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If we were to wait for strong holdings purely, we’d be playing a somewhat [tight and passive style of poker] Contrary to popular belief, we actually want to play somewhat aggressively against calling stations. We merely need to make sure we choose the right types of holdings.

Bluffing is clearly not an option, so we replace those bluffs with thin value bets. “Thin value” implies that the value hand is not overly strong. But we still believe that we can get paid off by enough worse hands for a value-bet to be profitable.

One example might be making a [value-bet] on the river with a second-pair type holding. Perhaps we’d typically check this hand when facing a good opponent. However, we know a calling station is capable of paying out with bottom pair and even some [high-card] type hands.

I would have not bet the turn.

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I had pocket Kings (it should be visible - I’m in the top left corner).

That’s what I was thinking then I fired another round like a dummy :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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Lol, it’s all good. Our whole lives we never stop learning. :+1:t2:

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Good to know. Your hand is not visible for me. I think pocket kings could possibly fit into the thin value category against a single calling station that calls extremely wide. Against 2, I’d be inclined to check the turn, as I’m not vulnerable to draws.

Not a large point, but especially against calling stations, I’d also be inclined to make a larger pre-flop raise.

I think you played it ok, unfortunately you just can’t help calling stations that will chase an ace at any price even with a poor kicker. I’d certainly of opened up with a bit more though.

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Don’t forget it was Ac5c raising the possibility of a Flush Draw. He was still hopeful when another club came up on the flop. Getting the Ace paired him and he was pot committed by then.

Yeah they have no concept of odds or hand values - I just had a hand where I limped in with QTs and flopped a queen and jammed and this mega calling station calls with ace high (no draws) - in the chat I type in “ace high???” then he replies “sure why not…higher than a queen” - not if I’m already paired up bro :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ace and a poor kicker ? Did you not notice it was the same suit on hole cards ? That’s a call every time :+1:t2:

He didn’t know you were paired up after the flop ! He learned it after. He had every right to call with an ace in the hole .

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He had the right but that doesn’t mean it was a good call.

Ace high/rag with only a back door flush is a snap fold there to that flop bet. Now if he had four to a flush on the flop that’s different…

You’re more experienced than me so I digress.

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From the things I’ve read written by really good players, A5 suited is a hand many of them play, although his bet sizing was weak considering he was in the small blind. After calling your 3Bet, I don’t think he should’ve continued, even with a flush draw, when you bet 450, because he only had Ace high after the flop. After the Ace showed up on the turn, there was no way he was folding. He lucked up this time, because it’s poker. Although, you might have been a bit more hesitant about betting with the Ace on the felt. But, at least you didn’t go all in.

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Are you trying to be silly here? I can dream up some rare situations where I’ll call a 2x allin over bet on the flop with ace high and no draw, but I think that is pretty obviously an easy fold in 98% of the situations you’ll face.

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In free online poker ? You gotta be shittin me :joy:

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I get the sense that the tables we play at must play quite differently.

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Absolutely

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