The fairness debate

Hmmmmm… the action flop is robbing me theory. To me it seems the idea wasn’t thought through properly. Regardless of the flop there is a basic truth in poker. In each hand, with the exception of split pots, one player will win while the rest lose. That is the truth of poker. A 9 seat table has 1 winner and 8 losers. This truth exists regardless of how many tables are playing. If 100 tables are playing that is 100 winners and 800 losers. That is a truth that cannot be changed.
I know the “action flop is robbing me” theorists will, at this time, be yelling about action flops forcing them to bet more and thus lose more. Pot size does not change the truth. 1 winner 8 losers. If you are losing big pots on action flops by the law of averages you should also be winning big pots on them. 1 winner 8 losers. If you are losing more than winning look at your game but that still does not affect the truth. 1 winner 8 losers. What benefit can possibly be gained from distorting the flop. 1 will still win. 8 will still lose. That is a fact. It can make no difference and so it makes no sense.

Excerpt from your post. "next A/9 beat by A/ 10 opponents 10 given on river. "
if opponent rivered the 10 didn’t you also river the 10!!! Thanks for the laugh tho…

if the program they use for this site isnt designed to encourage us to buy chips then y not just charge a small yearly fee to help run the site and not sell chips id be up for that…

never thought of it your right. guess I’m wrong

You’re 100% right, but the logic they use to support this claim is: Lucky seat / Cheating player / Friend of admin always gets good cards -> Action flop, who wouldn’t bet with AK right? -> They lose to a better hand or sometimes a worse hand (statistically speaking how the hands perform heads up) -> Come to forum to complain about either Action Flops or THIS SITE RIGGED BADBEAT ■■■■ HE CALL 89 AND WIN POT WTF.

IF There is an action flop, pots will get bigger, and the site will get rake more quickly, then again on replaypoker the rake is basically valueless chips which is only in place to keep the economy somewhat balanced and to make it feel more realistic, because it’s in place in all real money games. (aka anti chip inflation, this was explained by Qu4l0 and myself on another thread, cba to find it though) I think claiming that the rake is that bad that it causes people to buy chips, is preposterous, but that’s what the general belief among the tinfoil hat wearing loonies is. (But then why would replay give out endless 1k chips if you’re broke even though the people under the 200k chips total mark are the most likely to buy chips solely for the purpose of having extra chips, rather than supporting the site?)

There you go :wink:

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I have just had a look at the “action flop is robbing me” theory from a mathematical view-point. Action flops create bigger pots and so bigger rakes up to the max of 100 chips at low limit tables. If we take the max of 100 chip rake it gives an average of slightly over 11 chips per player per game. At 60 hands an hour that gives us 11 chips a minute and 660 chips an hour for each player. If we take the $2 for 60000 chips option (I chose that one because its first) Here is what we get:
1 chip costs 0.00333333333333333 cents
11 chips costs 0.0366666666666667 cents . That’s what one minute/one hand costs
660 chips cost 2.2 cents. That’s 60 hands an hour.
2500 free chips lasts 3 hours 47 minutes.
So basically, after 3 hours and 47 minutes the rake will start to cost the exorbitant fee of 2.2 cents an hour to continue play. It is probably costing more to run the machine you are playing on.
I ain’t super rich but i guess I can afford it if I cut back on a few things…

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Just a reminder that the cards you’re dealt is only a fraction of what happens during poker, too.

I can’t tell you the number of times that my King high flush was beat with a Ace high flush.
My full house was beat with a higher full house or a few occasions was even beat by 4 of a kind.

These loses are not once in a while. With Replay it happens in EVERY game.

I love to play Poker but it is NOT an unfair site. Nor is it dishonest. It works both ways. I have had games where I was the chosen winner and every hand that was dealt to me was a winner.

I love the challenge to see if my poker skills can beat the other Players but with this site sometimes it seems you also have to beat the Computer Program. No matter how good of a Poker Player you are you can’t beat a pre-programed hand and a pre-selected winner.

On the other hand it’s a free site and the best site I have found.

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So, you think you are a good one.
If you patient , play 3-4 hour, Im sure you get good nuts when other go all in or bet themselfs. Not a freakish computer on earth can beat that.

I’d like to see the four of a kind vs royal flush for confirmation that it happened. That is pretty unlucky if it happened but it doesn’t ‘proove’ that replay is manipulating the cards because it can happen and has happened many times before. It seems like rigging the site would be a very complicated and ineffective way for Replay to make money, and they wouldn’t have been able to get their RNG certificate anyway. Would like too see that you’re not lying though anyway, because I think you made that up.

Ya think?

Yeah… me too! That’s the stuff for James Bond films.

today this site proved to me something when the same player in the 20k mtt hi/lo got 4of kind 3 times in 5 hands someone figure those odds for me not to random if you ask me

I like to see that hands.

If you make sit a monkey front of the tipewriter, If you do that infinite number, one of the monkey will write The Complete Works of William Shakespeare.

here is the first 4 of a kind

very next they hit another 4 of a kind

I counted 12 hands later they hit a 3rd 4 of a kind

still way to many in a short amount of hands

Your story checks out, but that doesn’t mean that there is anything wrong with Replay. So yes, it was very unlikely for THIS PERSON to get THOSE HANDS at THAT TIME but things like that are bound to happen to some people- if they didn’t then that would be manipulation of the site. So in this instance, the chances of getting three four of a kinds in 14 hands is something like 1/100,000 (by my very rough calculations). This means that you will see it about 1/15,000 hands. This is actually not that unlikely and it does not mean by any stretch that the site is rigged or anything. Also, there are a load of things that you might consider ‘way too unrealistic,’ such as two royal flushes in one session, someone hitting runner runner quads as their only way to win, or something like that, which means that you will see strange things from time to time. They just happen. To really prove that the site is rigged for some reason, you would have to sample millions of hands and work stuff out using hard evidence. It seems like a very long winded way for Replay to make money :stuck_out_tongue: .

I thought we speak about Texas holdem.
Anyway, if some dont know
TH 4100 to 1 for a 4 of a kind
Omaha 1200 to 1 for the same.

Go figure. Such an event not on the daily base. Actually, if not happen, then would be suspicious. Not going to the wall becouse of this 3…

I think people cunfused about odds and real odds. With random, you just cant even up things, its not like if you play 4100 hand the next must be a 4 of a kind. Or oposit.

Still interested see that 5 four of a kind in TH, then that RP could look and may tell how many time that accoured from what number of total.

“today this site proved to me something when the same player in the 20k mtt hi/lo got 4of kind 3 times in 5 hands someone figure those odds for me not to random if you ask me”

honestly though I have played enough hands, I have seen enough hands, to form my own conclusion of the cards/ hands being hit, and I am leaving it at that. if I say what I really want to it just get me in trouble, and its the reason I don’t play much anymore.

You right, it is omaha. My apologies. I missed that one.

But, then, it is more odds again to get that. I dont know if RP have a stat for filter out anything like that. @MrReplay ?
As you probably know, RP prepare something about more transparent RNG, maybe this is it. If they show the stats, like they dealt such ammount and such hands in such a time frame and got hands like such and such.
Still await for that 5 hand @cigarb.

the hands I showed you are the ones cigarb was talking about. they didn’t happen like he said they did, but non the less the player did hit (3) 4 of a kinds in a very short amount of hands. player hit back to back 4 of a kinds, then 12 hands later or something like that player hit the (3rd) 4 of a kind.