Say you’re holding 89, and the flop comes Q6T. You’ve got an open-ended straight draw combining two different inside straight draws.
6 89T Q
Either a 7 or a J will complete your straight.
Is there a name for this situation other than OESD?
From a strategy standpoint, is this situation any different from an ordinary OESD where you hold, say, 89TJ?
I don’t know if there’s a name for it but it does seem they would have the same odds.
My initial thinking is that yes, you are drawing to 8 outs, the same as you are with a standard OESD.
On the other hand, I think it matters more which cards are in your hand, and which are on the board.
If you have one, or two of three cards at the “heart” of the straight, to me that’s a much better situation for you to be in, because it’s entirely possible no one else is even on the draw, so if you fill it, you are going to be the only one who has it.
So QT, Q9, Q8, T9, and 98 are the preferred hole cards to hold in this situation.
If you had Q6, or 86, the heart of the straight is on the board, making it easier for someone else to have cards that will fill the straight: J7, QJ, 67 – and then it’s more likely that you’re drawing to a straight someone else may already have. Most of the time it’s less likely that players will have these cards in their range, and won’t be in the hand to begin with.
Of course, it’s probably inadvisable to be playing hands like Q6 or 86 anyway. But we can just drag the ranks upward and make it a more plausible situation to be playing more often:
8 TJQ A
Here, you’re drawing to a straight filled by K or 9, and a player could be playing most Kings pretty easily.
Both open-end and double-inside draws are called “two-way” draws. The odds are the same, but in some cases a two-way draw can be better–if both would give the nut straight if it fills. The open-ender can only nut with the top end.
I’ve heard these called a “double gut-shot” or “double belly buster.”
You have 8 outs, so it’s the same chance as any OESD, but I think you have less of a chance for making the nut straight. Let’s look at specific cases…
“Normal” OESD…
Low End; you have 89 on a 2TJ board. 7 makes the nuts, Q doesn’t (9K and KA beat you, 28 combos)
Middle; you have 89 on a 27T board. Both 6 and J make the nuts.
High End; you have 89 on a 267 board. Both 5 and T make the nuts.
“Double Gut-Shot”
You have 89 on a 6TQ board. 7 makes the nuts, J doesn’t (9K beats you, 12 combos)
You have 89 on a 57J board. Both 6 and T make the nuts.
So yeah, you have the same chance of making the straight, but they won’t all be the nuts.
I thought a double gutshot was where you needed to fill two inside cards to get the straight, like
9 J K
or
9T K
I dunno. I can only tell ya what I have seen. People use different terms in different locations.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: Example: 10-8-7-6-4 is a double gutshot because a 9 would complete the inside straight 10-9-8-7-6 and a 5 would complete the inside straight 8-7-6-5-4.
I don’t actually know anything about poker, so it should surprise me not at all that there’s a printed online resource that explains all these terms that I hear thrown around and just sortof assume I know because it sounds like something that makes sense to me.
I usually call a hand where I need 2 inside cards a “fold.” Haha
From what I know, lots of people call it a “double gutter”, or just “double gutshot”… In fact, it’s not an OESD.
Oh well, my bad, didn’t see it!
This is called a double gutter. As far as from a strategic standpoint, yes there is a huge difference (depending on the stakes and level of players you’re playing with.) The difference is that double gutter are much more disguised than OESD’s. They are much harder for novice/bad/recreational players to see so when they hit you’re much more likely to get paid off. This becomes less true as you move up or play against better more sophisticated players.
Actually rthat is not an open end must be 789 10 or 6789 or 789 10 j