The title pretty much sums it up and if doesn’t sum it up for you then frankly I do not want your help.
Your analytical prowess is surely not your strong point.
Ok this is an example of just one hand (OF MANY) that I have righteously efffffd up in the last month.
Me, SB, AQ suit(hearts) One Limper in Mp, The only actual PRO at the table raises 3x in the cutoff. Fold back to me , I call, limper calls.
NOTE: I know Im out of position, Ive already folded A,Q twice in this game (once when I would have killed it)So maybe that’s part of it.
3 Handed to the flop, Me, Limpy and Pro.
Flop comes J,Q,J
I think…Ok I might not be too bad here, check towards the raiser and lets see where I stand. Limpy Checks as well , pro fires a bet of 4k,. I stop and think , do I put him on a Jack, or is he flushin(2 spades on flop). I didnt want to flat because I knew I was marginal after the Cbet, so I decide to raise , min raise, just to see where I am. Limpy calls my raise, very hesitantly . Pro… Well Pro shoves. I instantly know I’m dead , Im buried, leave this be and move on to the next hand. But then Im like , nahh he’s flushin and just thinks being a pro he can get away with it. Screw it… CALL.(all in for me) Back to Limpy… who really hesitantly calls also.
Showdown: The TWO OF 'EM had a Jack. Limpy had flopped a house , Pro flopped Set of Jacks, 2nd kicker. Me a measly, smelly AQ out of position . KNEW I was never going to win the hand but I still called
And its not just bad calls Im makin’ its bad calls , bad folds, bad reads , my chip shufflin’ has also suffered. I dont know what the story is but Im not enjoying this chapter. Please Help… All advice greatly appreciated.
are you telling me a “pro” played KJ(o/s?) that way?
I mean AQ is such a terrible terrible hand to play, these kind of situations happen way too often with it: Too strong to throw away but too weak to apply actual pressure.
Also: limper open limps (at least that’s what i’m able to figure out of your story) “pro” player decides to raise it to 3bb (which is dumb on his part, call odds etcm should’ve been 4x) which he could realistically be doing with anything to isolate the fish. AQ here is ahead of both ranges so why not 3bet? By calling you give the fish all the more reason to call with anything he has, including dumb things like T8, random queens and jacks (which ended up costing you) and you also have 0 clue what the “pro” has in this situation, i think a 3bet gives you loads more info.
On the flop, you’re done for, but i don’t agree with the min raise: the fish will most likely call with any draw (and there are a lot in his range afaik,) giving the pro good odds to continue with his flush draw, so that minraise doesn’t really achieve much + if the guy actually has a hand like he did, you’re going to get overshoved and be a big dog, i wouldn’t take those odds deepstacked, you’re asking to get overshoved and because of how you played preflop you have no idea what the guy might actually have, putting yourself in an awkward situation.
Maybe try being a little more aggressive with hands like AK and AQ preflop instead of just calling, and being more willing to fold them when you don’t flop anything good (although in this situation there wasn’t that much you could’ve done) As for calling with TPTK when faced with insane aggression: i’m guilty of it too sometimes, i just refuse to believe someone got a set with some dumb hand like 68o when i have AK, and i call when i know i’m beat. It’s a mentality problem, but you can help yourself by weeding these garbage hands out by 3betting etc.
I believe it was a perfect iso situation pf for you, 3 bet the “pro” at the cut off sizing it 10/11BB and more often than not he’ll fold and you’ll hand up hu with the fish. If he 4 bet he gives you a clear signal to fold, if he calls because he got a great price + a fish + position with a marginal hand you’ll have to play post flop multi way out of position with an awkward hand so you’re pretty doomed imo.
Post flop your check/min raise achieve nothing as LeMow said so I won’t develop more on that. As played pf (limp, 3x, call, call) I would have bet on that flop given your position and the fact that the “pro” would have missed it most of the times and the fish might overpay a draw and make calling mistakes. And then play poker from there. Obviously on this hand you would have been raised by the cutoff guy so easy fold for you.
Yes, to echo everyone else the flop raise achieved nothing. If you feel as though a jack is likely and obviously it in both villains ranges, then flatting is reasonable, you don’t want to inflate the pot.
"But I have a Strange Feeling"
So… You check–shove the flop, Aces call(maybe even other guy, you never know, it is Replay Poker!) And regarding that point , I’ve a strange feeling had you check shoved the flop the 2nd 6 would NOT have been turned. No 2nd 6 to be seen what so ever!!! But hey!!!They call me a conspiracy theorist.
I think check/shoving the flop would have been better given you were almost automatically committed to the pot with his 930 bet called by a fishier fish. There are many hands with which they’ll make a calling mistake in their range but there are many scary cards for them as well on the turn/river. Not sure a 4th club would have been good for you given the best club out there was a J.
So your pf play was solid, your check/call was not optimal even with an Ax type of hand which was likely. Ax+AA was unlikely but it happens. With two probable fishes I would have shoved without thinking twice about it, I don’t like slow playing people who don’t need to be slow played. Obviously you’d still have been sucked out but as you often point out being sucked out means you actually played well.
I totally agree with fingalpat Computer generated poker is such a waste of time… I played around 47 hands and not 1 of those hands were a winner, I have just about gave up on computer poker it is a farce, I see the same people winning day after day and they are not good players they are given the winning cards,.
I play to five cards every hand, but I do not accept raises when I have a two. If I think I am winning, I bet pot, if I think I am beat, I fold. the number of cards required to make your hand in the fourth card times four is your odds. the number of cards that will make your hand times two in the river is your odds. never draw to inside straight unless cheap. Guys raise big time pre-fop, I change tables. win a lot, lose too, working on that.
Perhaps you are not aware that computer generated Texas Hold Em is no better than a slot machine…The hands are pre-determined by the computer & if you hang on till the river you may win…notice all the all ins when your chips are very low, 7 out of 10 times your hand will turn into a brilliant one no matter what trash you start with, How many times will your pairs & trips get done with some pathetic 2-3 or 2 -7 unsuited turning into a straight or a full book…If you want the real thing you will never find it in this game, its all based purely on luck & the hope that other players will fold, which very few do as they are all trying to make it on the river…Try you local Casino, you will have a better chance of winning serious hold em, you sound like a pretty good player & wasting your time & talents here but, if is fun, a laugh & lots of frustration you want then this is the place LOL…Good Luck…Regards…David.