Push,or fold?

SnG. might have had more info on villain if not for trying to fix my keyboard, first part of tourney.

What I see here is:

  • You’re in the money now, so busting isn’t so bad.
  • The big stack has the two of you absolutely dominated. This is mostly a question of finishing 2nd or 3rd.
  • I can’t tell how many chips the guy who folded has, but it looks like it’s more than you, but close.

Based on this, I’m leaning shove. But you could also consider check-fold on the flop, but that’s a weaker/safer option. In no way should you fold preflop, since you’re already in for the BB, and there’s no pressure to fold.

My reasoning:

  • The SB already folded, leaving 150 dead chips to the winner of this pot.
  • You only have to beat one player, to pick up 450 chips, which is a good 1/3 of your current stack. Any time a reasonable open raise would be more than 25% of your stack, you should be playing a shove or muck strategy.
  • K9s is not a great hand, but it’s a better than average hand, about 60% to win against any two cards. Which means, about a 40% chance of finishing 3rd, on this hand. And assuming you’re stacked evenly with the player who folded, you’re 50% to finish 3rd, ultimately. 40% isn’t that much better than 50%, but it is better, and winning this hand for a double-up will give you more equity, which translates into a better than 50% chance of finishing 2nd, which is ultimately what you want.
  • It’s very likely the big stack is limping any two cards here, and if so, your shove may fold them and you’ll collect the blinds, which will keep you alive for 1 more orbit, which could be all the difference between 3rd and 2nd place.
  • It’s also very likely the big stack will call with any two cards, in which case you’re likely to win, double up, and have a better chance of outlasting the other player. If the other player is currently ahead of you in the chips, then you absolutely should shove here.
  • Even if you lose the hand, bust in 3rd is not a bad outcome for how many BBs left in your stack you are at this point. But if the other player only has a few hundred and will be forced all-in on the blinds next orbit, you could consider check-folding this hand, and giving yourself the ability to guarantee you don’t bust this hand, and thus may outlast them.
  • Any raise at all here will commit you to the pot, you might as well get it all in ahead of the flop, to deny the big stack as much information about his decision to call or not. But since his call is pretty much a no-brainer, it’s not such an advantage as you might thing. But certainly do not raise here, unless it’s all-in.

If you do check here, you’re folding almost every flop to stay in the game. You’re jamming if you hit either pair, two pair, trips, or a flush draw. But you can get rid of everything else, and then hope the other small stack busts sooner than you do. Check if you miss, big stack will almost certainly bet regardless of whether their hole matches up with the flop, in order to put pressure on you and get you to fold the hand, which you then do fold.

Because the big stack is all but certain to bet into a check no matter what they’re holding, you can therefore probably still check here even if you do hit the flop, and then jam if the big stack’s bet isn’t enough to put you all in anyway. The advantage of this is that if you jam before your opponent’s action, they can get away from the hand and deny you full profit that you would have gotten from jamming preflop, and you don’t want that. The only disadvantage to this is that there’s a small chance your opponent checks back, and then catches up to you on the Turn card or River, and then calls with confidence, and you lose.

well if u flop a K or 9 u deff jam with your stack, if u flop flush draw or stght draw then u have to check with your stack and then call any amount on a flush draw that he bets and stght draw calling is a fold, if neither of those flop then u check/fold because you are the small blind next and no blind after that giving u 2 more opportunities before your next BB to get better hole cards to jam,win hand and stay alive in the game but he will prob jam ( i know i would ) the next 2 hands after with him being BB then SB with his stack and looking at your stack knowing u will prob fold the current hand with your tourney on the line. his goal is to get u to fold,eat both blinds of which the SB is already in and folded, then force u to play your last hand or 2 so he can move on to heads up after taking u out. at that point with the hand u have and stack and blind level…it becomes much more luck than skill to stay alive.

I say shove.

Then again, I busted on the bubble by shoving UTG with about 6BB (at the time, shortest stack at the table iirc) a few hands before this, so take my advice with a grain of salt…

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Its an easy open-shove but not a shove after an open limp by a stack you have no fold-equity against. If you flop a pair or any draw rip it in as 1st to act.

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Shove all in, deny the stack chance to fold if he/she miss’s the flop.
As Puggywug said, you’re already in the money, 0 risk here.
( or if it was me, I’d bet 1421… 1 Dollar )

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Shove. bb has too call too wide

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The result:
V calls with JTo. I flop a 9 (no diamonds). He turns a J. No one improves on the river.

Of course I stand by the shove. It was the right thing to do. (rookie talking alert)

I really wanted to get into 2nd, tho. Not only for the addition in payout, but also because my ratio of 1st to 2nd+3rd combined. is like 6:1. A lot of that is coming into top 3 with a dominant stack, but i’ve taken down bigger deficient than this with a little luck, and showing them a strategy they had yet to see from me. If I can get them timid, or tilting, it’s usually the ballgame. Watch a cash game pro vs a tourney pro as the final 2, sometime.

Well this is a Sit n Go and there are specific strategies that work better to dominate the leader boards. there is the loss of potential 1st or 2nd place chip earnings here but more importantly if you are playing for the weekly 1st 20 but primarily the monthly leader boards then the placings in any given game could cost u 1st place or a place or 2 on the leader boards as far as point differential from 1st,2nd or 3rd placing in any given game. if u are trying to get 1st on the leader board than EVERY game and placing in a game matters much more that u may think. it is not uncommon to come back from a few hundred chips even in that situation to win the game if u know how to play heads up good after doubling/tripling up and are back in the game. if u think oh i am in the money so just shove here or shove any 2 cards and im happy with my 3rd place tourney points and dont care about leader boards and depending where u are at on the boards ( especially towards the end of the month ) than i guess it doesnt matter, but it just takes a couple of pots to be in position to now out play him and making your comeback to win and get the added points u need for the leader board You also have to understand that a 3rd player ( which i cant see his stack on that table ) has a few more orbits with the chance of busting out by waiting a few hands ( especially with where the blinds are positioned with 3 of you left ) and now u could have a guaranteed 2nd place if Mr.Big Stack knocks him out and now you are guaranteed more points and chips because getting 1st or 2nd place in most games is key to staying on top or getting to the top of the leader board. Getting 3rd place in most games wont get u there. I can say that sit n gos are a different breed especially if your playing the boards.

For the group’s reference, it looks like the mystery stack was 4196 chips after folding, or about 14BB. The 9-max SnGs start with 9 players at 3000-chip stacks, and when you subtract the 750 chips from the pot and both @garywgold135’s and @waidus’s stack from the 27K chip pool, that’s the figure that results.

Again, I think you made the correct shove here. You need to use every bit of fold equity that you have in this spot. Sitting on less than 5BB if you fold, your stack will get eaten up really quickly 3-handed, and you likely won’t have many better hands than this within the next orbit, or possibly two. Shoving also might make the big stack think twice about limping on the button next orbit, if he knows you might punish him for that decision. And, of course, you might scoop the pot and the juicy 2.5BB in the middle if he opts to fold.

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My last hand in this SnG: https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/551242033
Two hands later, when @ZocusmocusMZ started with 4196 + 150: https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/551242254

oh i didnt know u were in that game mr. bubble boy :slight_smile: ya after seeing the play i would do the same as both of them did. However if he woulda checked and not went all in and saw the flop then waidus jams his 9s and V folds his 10J especially with an ace on the flop so waidus stays in the game with 2150 chips on the small blind now… as i mentioned i would do from my above post. If waidus doesnt hit a pair or draw and checks then V most likely will shove to have waidus fold but he will still have 1400 chips left and hes still in the game so u could look at it both ways as either way could work better.



Are we not HU here in a SnG?

There’s a third stack but the stack size isn’t showing lol
I missed that as well, so I’m not sure if its an obvious shove anymore

Just click on the hand/hands that coder posted above and u can see the play.

For the hand I shoved, I had TT UTG 4-handed sitting on under 7BB, while @waidus in the small blind had just under 6BB. It folded to the big blind, who was the chip leader with about 70% of the chips in play, and woke up with KK. No regrets about my shove - I’d do that all day long.

When @waidus shoved, he was in the big blind, with just under 5BB left behind. The button limped, and the small blind folded to him.

I read somewhere that only experienced players should attempt slow playing AA. I tried a few minutes ago, and let V draw 2 pr. for almost nothing. Had i shoved preflop, I’d probably have a 50K ticket, right now, instead of a disappointing 9th place finish.

I thought about that, after the fact. Probably would have taken another few K to back him down, but might have worked.