Problems with a Particular Type of Player

I’m a newer player, I enjoy Replay but it seems everyday I meet a particular type of player. One who raises all in’s and absurd amounts of chips when they know they don’t have a good hand. They force you to use everything you have. And right after they lose it all they instantly add the maximum amount back. It seems like they just bought so much chips that they don’t value them at all. It just sucks the fun out of any lobby. I see these people a lot… You could say, “well why don’t you move to another table” and usually I do. But its such a common occurrence that I’m just not having a lot of fun. Should I play with friends or something? I don’t have any poker friends.

4 Likes

This is a common frustration with especially the lower/mid-stakes games. For ring my only real suggestion is yeah, play with friends or patiently build your BR until you can play the big game, which is more fun IMO :slight_smile: even at 250/500k there are some players like you describe! But they are rarer, to be sure

For tournaments I highly recommend league play. There are several leagues, many of which are open to all. Any league will almost automatically have a higher (or at least less arbitrarily loose-punty) standard of play, just by the nature of signing up for something versus showing up for something.

Nordic Warriors has a ton of tough players who are also great company at the tables, for instance!

Welcome to the site, glad to have you here!

3 Likes

I would suggest looking into league play. Click your avitar, then you will find leagues. Locate the organizer of a league you prefer & send a friend request to the organizer and a message - interested in joining league. We have a lot of differant range’s available. Hope this helps & gl at the tables.

4 Likes

League play will help with the friends, Nordic Warriors 20K Tues Hi/Lo, Fri NL holdem, Sat 2 games first Hi/Lo, then NL. friend Rain.

3 Likes

*friend @_Rain don’t forget the underscore or they’ll never find him! :wink:

2 Likes

Thank you. my laptop would not do that, so thanks for bringing it up.

2 Likes

I’d suggest a few possible approaches:

  • These are some of the most profitable types of players to play against, but they introduce a large amount of volatility. If you are expecting to face of lot of this, it helps to be playing well within your bank roll. Many players suggest 20 times the maximum buy in, and this is usually plenty to manage volatility in most contexts, but if you have a lot of players jamming all in constantly, playing on stakes low enough that you have significantly more than this can be helpful.
  • In order to be profitable, it’s important to be selective about your starting hands. Pay attention to the range of hands they show down when going all in, and only get involved with hands much better than that. Also, if you are early to act, you need to be even more selective, as you have to worry about all of the other players yet to act possibly having a better hand. In a really pre-flop jam heavy environment, if I’m last to act, I’ll generally call with any pair 77 or higher, AJs, and AQ and AK (and might widen that if one player is going all in on practically every hand). If there are callers in front of me, I tighten my ranges, and might now only call TT+ and AQs+.
  • If you find the volatility too unpleasant (if you go all in 10 times, expect to lose 3 or 4 times even if you’re picking really good hands, and will probably win less than half if a lot of the hands are multi-way), or just don’t enjoy winning chips this way, follow what you enjoy, and find tables where this isn’t as common.
3 Likes

All very good advice. I’d also add:

  • Sit to the direct left of these players if possible. They’re much easier to play against if they’re usually forced to act before you do. If you’re sat on their direct right, and there’s no free seats, that’s a good time to leave.
1 Like

If you’re rolled very conservatively for the stakes (40+ buy-ins) and your opponents truly are maniacs, you can also include pretty much all suited aces IMO, especially the wheel suited aces (A2s-A5s).

When multiple players are going all-in preflop, with very wide ranges, having more straight/flush potential should be pretty profitable too I think :slight_smile:

But I think that by far the most important considerations in these shove-happy hyper-loose “bingo” environments are those @Yorunoame already stated:

  1. be rolled hecka deep so you don’t sweat the variance too hard, and
  2. play TIGHTER if your opponents are loose - I still mess this one up all the time.

I’ll catch myself thinking “omg he went all in with 83 offsuit, I can call him next time with QJ and be way ahead of his range”

…which is true but for instance QJ is only a 2:1 favorite against 83o, not to mention the other players who may still be left to act.

On the other hand, TT is almost a 6:1 favorite against 83o.

So if you really don’t like fading big swings, and your opponents are really that loose/aggressive preflop, you could also probably just wait for TT+/AQ/AK and get the money in really good almost every time. I would find that mind-numbingly boring but it would probably print money, since the major downside to such a nitty strategy (players can fold more hands preflop after we bet bc they realize we are so tight) is no longer a factor (the maniacs will go in anyway)

Other than the league suggestion, I do beleive all new players should play as many freerolls as possable. You will encounter a lot of the players, you may want to stay away from, but sooner or later you will encounter them again. Frerolls are a good way to learn how to win against them. :slight_smile:

I’ve had that experience often and I’m never quite sure how to respond. And you’re right, it takes the fun out of the game.

I’ve seen mention of leagues and tournaments, but have never participated. How do we do that?
And thank you!

I can help you with that @CalGal44, I am an organizer in four private leagues, send me a friend request and I will hook you up.

Hi @CalGal44 , @_Rain does have four great leagues, by all means please check them out. And also just FYI, there are many leagues at replay. Click on avitar & scoll down to leagues for full list. Have fun & gl at the tables. :smile:

My issue with this is when EVERY had is 100 in a 10/20 ring table.
I’m sorry, if you want a 50/100 game PLAY in a 50/100 game. Don’t come into a 10/20 game to push people around. It makes sense on occasion to actually get a good hand an indicate so by pushing a pre flop bet - but if you are dealt A A, doesn’t it make more sense to bet the minimum and pull the funds out an win a bigger pot?
And pre flop All-In? That’s playing Roulette, NOT POKER.

Joel, I understand how frustrating that can be, seem to you. Hopefully I can explain some things to you and help clear up some things to you.

A standard raise is about 3x blinds. So at 10/20, standard raise is 60, which 3 x, which is just 40 from 100. If there are limpers, standard raise is about 3 x +.75 of 1 bb per limper. If 3 limpers, then standard raise is 60(3 x) + 15(75% of 1 bb) x 3 limpers = 45 = 105, which means standard raise would be 105 for 3 limpers.

Now that covered standard raise sizing, lets cover why raise.

Players raise and should raise to:

  1. Extract more value when they have a hand
  2. Protect their hands. AA, if its vs 6,7 handed, is about 50% to lose by river, so raising to fold out some players to 1,2,3 callers is, can be better then getting 6,7 callers
  3. To gradually build up pots for hands that have great postflop playability. Hands like JT suited, QJ suited, QT suited, T9 suited, 98 suited, etc. Those hands often make good straights, flushes, 2 pairs, trips, monster hands, and are often disguised to opponents.
  4. To bluff, set up later bluffs.

Good agression, bullying, pushing, etc, in good spots, according to good boards, good hands, and even bad hands, etc, vs the right players, stack sizes, right situations, right nuances, etc, is not only part of poker, but can be good poker play.

If you play in 50/100, or 500/1000, your going to see 500(50/100), and 5000(500/1000), 3 x, 4x, 5x, 6x, etc, raises, aggression, bullying, pushing, etc, as that is part of poker, can be, semi often is good poker, can, and often does win.

And your going to see that at 10/20, 5/10, ALMOST ALL STAKES, games, sites, play money, real money, offline at casinos, online, almost everywhere. The only way your going to avoid that is too either table select extremely carefully, start a home game with friends who don’t play that way, or stop, quit poker.

You can play against, win against that kind of play.

I suggest that you read, study, watch the following, and then practice in the games.

Harrington on Hold Em, Super System by Doyle Brunson. Upswing Poker, Jonathan Little, Doug Polk, Negreanu, Nathan Blackrain, Poker Tracker, GTO(game theory optimal) Solvers, Exploitative poker play, etc.

1 Like

Great information in easy to understand language. Thank you

I don’t really think anyone is using Harrington or Super System anymore. They’re more historical interest texts at this point as the theory will be out of date by like 20+ years :slight_smile:

Have you read, studied them? The concepts they cover, about Position, starting hand ranges, board textures, hand range reading, and GTO like ranges, and exploitative play, pot odds, percents to win, counting outs, proper betsizing, raise sizing, semi bluffing, GAP concept, etc, according to situation, spots, stakes, players, stack sizes, nuances, etc, is good for beginners, intermediates, and even a little tiny bit of semi advanced, and is semi almost semi timeless, and is a good foundation, for more modern GTO, exploitative concepts, and Upswing poker, J little, Doug Polk, etc to build upon, expand. There is a reason why Harrington on Hold Em, Super System, Skalansky’s Poker theory, are considered POKER BIBLES for beginners, intermediates, even a little tiny bit of semi advanced, and considered semi advanced. And they have been commonly, rightfully, still used since 2013. Less so for advanced players in recent years, because of GTO, Solvers, Upswing Poker, J little, etc, but they still have their uses, especially for beginners to intermediates at lower to mid stakes. Upswing, J Little, Doug Polk, GTO, Solvers, etc, more advanced, fancy, more complex, etc, stuff is semi better at the semi higher stakes, levels of competition.

Joel, and this is not to insult Joel, is more of a beginner, at lower stakes, and probably needs the good foundation of Harrington on Hold Em, Super System, Skalansky’s book, and then build, expand on that via Upswing, J Little, Doug Polk, GTO, solvers, etc.

1 Like

I myself am a big fan of Harrington, and think his books are some of the best available before the modern solver driven revolution in poker theory. Further, starting with some simpler principles, even if they are a bit rough around the edges by modern standards, probably makes it a lot easier to digest more complex ideas later. I imagine there are a few people in the world that master calculus before learning how to add, but I’d think that wouldn’t be the best approach in general.

I’d also add that the starting ranges he suggested for conservative play in full ring games are very close to modern charts (which it should be noted, are not really “solutions” at this point).

2 Likes