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People complain about bingo players on this site, but the real problem is serial callers. It has happened to all of us: you raise 3 big blinds, 6 big blinds, even 10 big blinds and end up with 3+ opponents going to the flop. In a scenario like that even pocket aces aren’t going to be good most of the time.
So what do players do to overcome this challenge?
It seems like some people prefer to use massive raises (20 big blinds+), which is extremely risky or only raise monsters (KK+). I am more interested in how people play hands like AT-AQ, medium pocket pairs, or bluff raises. And I’m thinking mostly about ring games.
Or do you limp all your hands including monsters? Another extremely dangerous, but potentially lucrative, approach.
I’m not a fan of limpimg with monsters. Bet enough to make it incorrect for them to call and if they call, you profit in the long run. It’s ok to limp now and then just to vary your play, but, in general, it’s not a great idea.
I’m also not a huge fan of going allin preflop, except in specific circumstances. For example, if you have a great starting hand and are down to 10 big blinds or less,you might as well get them in.
It’s usually better to put in a bigger than normal (for the table) raise preflop, then lower the boom on the flop if the board texture looks good.
If there are lots of players in the hand, you’re usually better off slowing down a little. Bet a little less and put in your big bet on the river if you think you’re still good. You will get paid off enough to make it profitable.
In general, bluffing doesn’t work well in free poker. There are exceptions, of course, but you are usually better off just playing straight ABC poker. Bet when you think you’re ahead, check your strong draws, and fold to bets when you think ypou’re beat.
I see many medium stakes FR where people tend to limp all the time and I really don’t see the point except burning BB for no reason so I’ll definitely consider limping to be a marginal play.
You’re question is short but the answer has to be long since you’re referring to many different hands pre-flop.
I’ll start assuming some things based on what I know about you (mainly thanks to this forum :P):
You enter ring games with a decent buy-in (meaning you have a bit of cushion).
By default you put players on the passive fish side (many calling mistakes then SDV shifts to pure value and semi-bluff to SDV).
You select only pristine bluffing spots since bluffing is hard on replay specially in ring games (even more so in 6max).
We’re talking about ring game full ring so 9 players, no BB level change.
So I’ll start with the easiest question:
When do you bluff PF?
Only at the CO or the BU (so that you’re pretty sure to be IP post flop if you ever get called).
Not Often (obviously).
With hands that still have some equity and not pure air (since semi-bluff becomes more SDV and SDV becomes more value against fishes).
Medium pocket pairs (77-99 or 66-TT? Doesn’t differ that much but I’ll go with 77-99)?
EP: even though it’s a bit contradictory with what I wrote about limping I’d consider limping in this particular case if I know I won’t face a raise. Then I’d play fit or fold basically trying to catch my 12,5% chance of nutting on the flop. If the board is really dry I’ll go with a SDV mindset trying to win the minimax game.
MP: standard open raise or cold call if there was an EP open raise (fold it if you feel it’s gonna be MW instead of calling).
LP: standard open raise or cold call if there was an EP-MP open raise.
Here goes the tricky part : how do you play AT-AQ?
LP: I would fold most of the time. That could be seen as nitty but since you’ll be OOP post flop and you’ll miss it about 2/3 of the time you’ll be in a tough spot 2/3 of the time. You don’t know against fishes what is your hand type post flop OOP, could be a semi-bluff, a SDV, a value, no clue. So might as well fold.
Moreover you’ll face many MW pots when raising from LP on replay so not great with AT-AQ. If you do hit your flop (which happens a third of the time) it’s gonna be tough to make money so not sure it’s that great either.
MP: I would open raise or fold. It really depends on the LP and blinds players. Ideally the guys in the LP should be able to find the fold button and the blinds to make calling mistakes. If it’s a safe assumption I’d open raise. If not fold.
LP: cold calling or open raising. I would call if there’s a bunch of limpers mostly to control the pot geometry post flop.Otherwise I’d open raise.
Hope it’s clear. It’s what I believe in now, it might change over time or at different stake levels.
Qu410, for an experience player I am sure this makes sense, for the unexperience player of fishes as you refer to, all of the PN, AL, SDV, etc, makes it just a bit hard to understand, but thanks for help that you are doing, just help some of us fishes understand
“Fish” is not said in a despising way, we’ve all been fishes and we’re all someone’s fish (except maybe Phil Ivey). I’ve just ended a high stake MTT at the 4th spot and had the chance to play top players. It was very interesting and humbling so I’m obviously someone’s fish
On that note if you could list all the terms/concepts you don’t get I’ll gladly explain it to you to the best of my knowledge.
I just was in Omaha hi lo around 11 m EST
im AstralWeeks and I was at game #202748003
I bet against Sabrina…i had full house 3 queens 2 kings
she had 3 kings and won 4,414 chips
please advise here…a full beats 3 kind
whats rude is when you accuse someone who doesn’t understand and is seeking help. Thank goodness the site owners and moderators were lovely, kind and considerate and helped me. You might take the lead from their kindness and help… Have a good day!
EP, MP, LP - Early position, middle position, late position. The first couple seats after the BB are early, the last few before the SB are late, the rest are middle. You might also see the seat to the left of the BB called UTG or under the gun. The seat to the right of the SB is the BU or button, the seat to the right of that is CO or cutoff position.
IP, OOP - In position, out of position. You are in position when you are the last player to act (after the flop) and out of position if there is a player or players in the hand that will act after you do. It’s almost always better to be in position.
PF - preflop
SDV - Show down value (a hand that might be the best)
MW, HU - Multi-way pot, heads up. Heads up is you vs one player, multi-way is you vs more than one player. Big pairs do better heads up, suited connectors do better multi-way, for example.
Your explanation of SDV is correct, but fishes might look at that sentence and say to themselves: “But every hand might be the best right?”
“You have J♣ J♥. You raise to $6 on the button and the big blind calls.
The flop comes A♥ 3♦ 2♥. He checks and you bet $10.
He calls. The turn comes K♣. He checks and you check behind.
The river comes Q♦ and he checks.
Start out by asking yourself, “If I bet this river, will my opponent call with a worse hand?”
In this example, it’s a pretty clear NO.
Ok, now what about if you check? Is there a chance your jacks are good?
Absolutely. If your opponent had any sort of draw or a pocket pair
worse than yours on the flop, you almost surely have the best hand.
Check and take that free showdown because there’s no value in betting.
The value your jacks have seeing a free showdown far outweighs both betting for value or betting as a bluff.”
"You have 7♥ 8♥. You raise to $8 in the cut-off and the big blind calls.
The flop comes 4♥ J♣ 3♣.
He checks and you c-bet $12. He calls. The turn comes 8♦ and he checks.
What should you do?
On the flop, you made a continuation-bet. At this point, your hand
has no showdown value and the only equity you have is the fold equity
you get by betting.
You want your opponent to fold. That’s the only way you can win.
Once the turn falls, though, everything changes.
Sometimes barreling the turn is pointless.
All of a sudden you have a pair of eights and, well, showdown value.
The bulk of your equity in the pot is no longer fold equity because you
have a pair.
But should you bet it? No.
Rarely, if ever, is a thinking player going to call with a worse hand. And he certainly isn’t going to fold a better hand.
So we check with the intention of seeing a showdown."
Jan here, (Wivyjan). I have tried three time to email you and my emails are being returned. I had won two tournaments, that I have not been paid for. would you please send me the proper email address, so I can forward my email letter on.
I thank you so much as always !!!
Yours, in Aces !!!