Mistake, or just the way it goes?

these are the last two hands of my last tournament.
final table
would you have played them differently?
I have ATo
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/604686230
I have QJo
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/604686368/two-pair-sevens-and-sixes
this player has shoved a few times, getting the field to fold each time.

Self aggrandizing part:
From early in the tournament. Finally played this hand correctly
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/604658537/full-house-eights-full-of-sevens

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you can fold both these hands to shoves for 28 bb’s. If he’s doing this a lot with that many blinds you can start calling with AT, it is waaaaay better than calling with QJ.

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Its definitely better to play A10o Vs QJo as an all in call. At least A10o beats a few hands, losses to a few & races the rest. QJo only beats J10 which Im not sure how likely they would be to shove with. So you call all your chips & only beat J10 & some strange all in bluffs.

Yes its a mistake play QJ as a call all in & fold A10 bc your reducing your chance to win. I’d fold QJ to the ALL IN & maybe limped instead. Raising was probably better tho TBH.

A10o probably raise more instead of min - 2.5x or 3x. This should get more respect probably get a fold more, some calls & less weak shoves.

Nice win on 78.

Yea I watched a few hands & this player wasn’t as reckless aggressive as I expected. There was a shove shown with 77 by villain.

Its easier with no timer to say what to do. I think Im calling sometimes & too often with A10 wrongly in this situation. I dont think its an easy fold but clearly the right move most of the time.

In the hand with ATo, you should either raise bigger or call. The small raise gives the BB too good of a price to play a hand in position. I would recommend just limping with ATo. The stacks are a little too deep to start open-shoving and raising a larger size allows the opponent to 3bet shove very wide. In that situation you would limp a lot of hands and develop a limp-shoving range. However, if your opponent folds to the small raise or does not 3bet correctly, keep open-raising.

I think calling with ATo would be +chip EV, though this is a tournament, so I think folding is fine to preserve your chips.

Calling with OJo is too loose. At best, you are chopping against lower pocket pairs and crushed by higher broadways.

Well played on the full house.

I never meant to imply V was being reckless. Looking back, If anyone played the end of that tournament really poorly, it was me. I think I was playing a lot more passive than usual, and thought that might be getting exploited. In both cases, if V is shoving all pairs, most times it’s gonna be a coin flip, and leaving it all up to luck is not the way i like to play

At 25-30BB, both ATo and QJo are limps from the SB. ATo is limp/shoved over a 3-bet and limp/called to a shove. QJo is limp/called to a 3-bet and folded to a shove.

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My comment was based on what you said in OP. You gave me the impression that villain was shoving all in a lot. Yes the 77 shove was pretty light, bad, risky IMO. It wins often getting a fold by mostly worse hands & gets called by better pocket pairs & some flipping hands. I did watch a fair few hands & besides this play didnt think they were particularly out of line.

I cant say you played bad. I noticed everyone was min raising as the default pre flop. Maybe some limp/check raising with strong hands could have been employed.

The QJ was just a small emotional lapse in judgement IMO based on two hands (or prob more) and as you say feeling like your getting exploited.

You’re right. We were on the same table for quite a while, and I was starting to question some of my lay downs.
wish i didn’t like higher stakes so much. since i do, almost everyone is better than i am, but it ain’t boring.

@waidus
yea QJ is good but an easy fold. Don’t gamble/lose a MTT like this. Losing with A10 is better & less often. This is prob the lesson to be learnt. Even if we baby step improve in poker, we have improved.

Im not an experienced tourney player but I try to accept these MTT mistakes & learn.
Its a mistake you can easily learn a little from. As I said I might call with A10 and can admit Im not playing great & its not a great call - but not terrible either: Especially based on 77 (shove) and limited data I had to work with.

A few players have said basically its not an auto call but more often a fold - for sure I’ll agree with that off the table. These better players are probably making better technical reads, bets & positional play in MTT throughout. This puts them in a better position to out play & gamble less with a bigger stack & apply more pressure. Always a winning formula for MTT.

You will need to gamble a little in MTT and have even more luck to win.

A10 is a decent gamble. Players shouldn’t be pushing you off often with much worse so it is a gamble that they ARE playing UnderDogs like Aceragssuited or W0r53.

Last MTT I played was 250K, not huge considering my bankroll. Mid tourney KQ I raise & get 3bet & quickly called. I lost with KQ flopping top pair. Pre flop I knew I was up against it & shoulda made a tight but good folded on flop. I called quickly deciding to gamble pre flop & flop. Never gamble mid MTT.

I wasn’t getting cards or luck so tried to go with it, but knew i was up against it & hoping for luck.

I want to apogee for yesterday I was told i misread my hand and rp I am sorry I was wrong to say what i said and am very sorry sammymorgan

I don’t win much, tourney, or rings, without a little luck. However, when I flop a flush draw, and bet it, I’m hoping to beat the odds. Get lucky. But, isn’t the whole thing about making more chips when you hit, than you lose when you don’t? Seems the better I play, the less luck comes into play. For some reason i see a lot less river cards affecting my hands.
Every now and then, I’ll win a ticket, and play a 250K MTT.

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There are a few more reasons to bet on draws than that.

Your bet lets the table know you have interest in the pot. If you don’t show some interest, you can expect late position players to try to bluff the pot down by a bet sized for a call to be -EV for your draw. By putting in some bet, you may prevent the bluff entirely, or even fold their hand. Or they may raise you, or they may just call. But if you only play draws passively, you will lose a lot of opportunities to fill them. And if you do fill them, you’ll find the pots you are winning with them are smaller, which makes the value of making such hands less.

agreed, but when i flop a nut flush draw, and bet it, I’m betting like it’s a made hand. Often as not, I never see a river. Not sure how that figures in the overall odds.

Here’s another I missed.
I’m Btn-1 with A9o
Bet what i had on V having 9x Xx. The betting seemed to concur.
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/605776816/

The limp may have been a mistake. I’ve taken to limping behind with such hands, trying to mitigate the flop not connecting.
Was the mistake not seeing a set would follow the same line of betting, or just the way it goes?

https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/605801067/flush-ace-high
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/605809136/straight-six-to-ten
ok. these have to fall under the ‘just the way it goes’ column.
ok, ok. should have pushed, instead of betting pot. :frowning:

A9o is an easy fold, especially since you are bracketed by 2 good players (proxy and froggy). You do not want to play this hand multiway OOP, even if it just cost you 1BB. If a weak player limped ahead of you and you wanted to isolate with this hand, ok maybe. If you want to open it from the CO or BTN, fine. Just get out of the habit of playing trashy offsuit aces, especially multiway. Avoid these situations altogether.

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