I waste a lot of chips on these. I’m sick of them. Pairs, ace/x suited, off-suit connected face cards, suited connected face cards pay handsome returns even though they don’t hit very often, but for me both suited and unsuited low/mid connectors are loss-making hands, little better than trash that I always fold. Even trash hits sometimes. Just yesterday I folded 8/3 and flopped quads. But I never get low/mid straights. I get broadway, king/nine, eight/queen with satisfactory frequency, but things like 5-6-7-8-9 never happen to me. Flushes and full houses account for the majority of my profit. My own hand history suggests I will achieve a straight flush about once every 19,000 games.
However, to me, seven and eight of hearts looks like a great hand. Off-suit nine and ten less so, but it’s a playable hand. I’ve always been happy to call a pretty large bet if I have pocket cards like these. But I’m considering adding them to my fold list. The problem is, said list is already sizeable and, if I start folding these, I’m going to be folding 19 out of 20 pocket cards.
What do you think?
- Only a complete idiot would consider folding such hands
- My experience is similar. Save chips and fold them.
I like including suited connectors like 87s in my opening range from most positions. I think they mostly break even or slightly better. Folding them is not a large mistake, but I like them primarily for the board coverage they provide. Along with small pocket pairs, they make it so that opponents can’t take it for granted that I don’t have a huge hand on a small card flop.
But when playing through this site on low and mid stakes, I mostly just folded them. I think they can still do fine, but I didn’t feel I needed the board coverage at these levels. Just wait for big hands of any kind and bet large seemed to be the easiest path forward.
the poll seems a bit to much black/white to me. some situations would be great to play em and stupid to fold and other would be the complete opposite.
i would consider those questions first:
- how deep are the stacks?
- what position am i in?
- how much do i need to pay?
- how many people are already in the pot?
- are players after me likely to squeeze?
- is the table loose enough to pay off when i hit
- (strong players only) would it be a good hand for my polarised betting range?
1: the deeper the stacks the more value suited connectors will get, this because they get most value out of their implied odds
2: position is always important but even more so with those hands, its way easier to answer several of the questions above with position
3: you want to pay as less as possible because they are usually behind but get win big pots if you actually hit
4: with suited connectors you want more players because if you hit you want as much chance as possible for other players to hit something as well so you can win more, only just be cautious if theres a possibility of a higher flush/straight. the possibility doesn’t have to mean you should fold into aggression, only that you should still consider the possibility
5: last thing you want is pay off, even in a multi way pot, only to see a big squeeze from the big blind just to fold it anyway
6: like i said its mostly about implied odds, so if the other players are too cautious and only play big pots with big hands themself you don’t wanna play them often with those hands
7: probably the most tricky reason to master but to explain as easy as possible, vs strong players you want to balance your ranges with a few bluffs preflop and adding some suited connectors to that range will often do well as long as you dont overdo it. it will make you more unpredictable without losing too much which you would on opening worse hands
These cards provide a wider range of opportunities pre flop.
Agree, it depends on all of these factors plus the kind of game you are playing in. For example in the RP 1 million chip buy-in tournaments, there is a hell of a lot of limping in the early stages and your suited connectors may be giving you pot odds of 9:1 preflop with 3 callers and the BB if you are in the SB, with excellent implied odds should you see a promising flop with straight or flush potential.
I will also sometimes minraise suited connectors from UTG on the assumption that I will get several callers and thus get good odds, but if only called by the blinds, can still take the pot with a continuation bet.
I may also sometimes call a raise from the BB with suited connectors, particularly if I am big stack and can push opponents off the pot preflop. It is better if there is a minraise from early position and then a call from late position, giving you better odds, plus some added chance that if both are high card hands, they may fully or partially block each other. For example AQ vs AJ. With 9 T on the flop, a Jack on a later street may ensure that you get paid handsomely for your straight when the J comes on a later street.
The only problem with going too low with suited connectors is that you will rarely flop top pair, and even when you do, players with overcards will tend to call the turn and river, so if any higher card hits on a later street, there is uncertainty. Also when you make your straight opponent is less likely to make second best hand.