KJ suited 15 bb's?

The problem is most times nobody calls. You were favored to win. I raise 1 level with aces. What if someone calls with KK and the flop is 23K?

a king on the flop won’t be much of a problem, if AA runs into KK it wins about 80% of the time.

  • so when shoving you would without doubt get a call from KK
  • when raising most of the time KK would reraise anyway and you are going nowhere
  • when raising and getting just called and the flop the odds he will hit it is the same as in set mining, so 7,5:1. if he has hit a king you won’t know that he has KK, if you are in position and he raises or shoves, you won’t go anywhere with an overpair like AA.
  • if he is in position you would bet or slowplay but eventually money gets ini the pot and you will also go nowhere with your aces.

so all things considered AA vs KK will almost always get in this way no matter if you push now or on the flop, and if getting unlucky with the king it would have happened anyway.

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OK Play however you want. If it works good. If all fold you won the blinds and antes . If you just raised you might have some callers and win more chips. But if you lose, you are losing less. Good luck whichever way you choose!

thx gl to u2.

i agree with u on the point that raising instead of shoving probably have higher +EV with aces, since youre good in the very most cases and in need of chips it’s probably better to just raise since you won’t see it again in a while.

but you also said, you may lose less. but when indeed such a flop as you mentioned comes like 23K . and your opponent shoves you all-in, would you fold the aces then? even if you do it’s probably a bad idea, you indeed loses to KK, but just calling pf is rarely a sign of KK, it may be 22 or 33. but just as good AK,KQ,KJ or maybe even only air. so the odds you win on the shove is way higher then you lose, it might indeed happen you get kicked out of the tournament by cracked aces, but if you can’t play aces then what does.

hope this helps.

all in the flop you didnt kiss and bet well or check assume over card see turn then bet ther ars off

That is one theory…of course when that better hand comes along you are going to be betting less chips, maybe significantly less thus reducing your fold equity…

I see people waiting and then doubling up their stack only to be in the position of needing to double up again…

Personally I like the shove with KJ suited

I don’t hate it, but it’s not a strong enough hand to shove from UTG+1. You will either win the blinds, which increases your stack about 15%, or you get called by one or more hands that probably have you beat.

I would have liked a shove from late position, or from the blinds, against one or maybe 2 limpers.

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thx for the additional information both of you.

I do not think this is a good spot to shove. You would have been better off waiting to shove from late position even with a worse hand. You have very little information when shoving from early position, and KJs is likely to be behind your opponents’ calling range. It is just not going to get through very often (to win 1.5 bbs) and will be behind when called. If the standard raise size is 2x-2.5x, I would go for a raise. If the raise size needs to be bigger, I would just fold and wait for a better spot.

With 15 bbs (and no antes?) you can wait for a better shot. I would rather bluff shove with Ax or Kx from late position than put in my whole stack with a marginal value hand.

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Well, my grandmother use to say… it aint what you want that makes you fat, its what you get