So, i’m having difficulty playing my tight game against these raisers who raise b/w 5-10BB every hand and then c bets every time.
MOST of these raisers calls my raise to their bet, whether pre or post flop.
-They play like calling stations.
-I don’t think they have any idea about odds or outs, as I have seen them go all in with 3 outs, holding A3o ofcourse.
Please note that these games are real money games, so I can’t really call them to showdown everytime with Ace high. Also, I get cards which as a tight player i am not comfortable playing with against people with such a wide range.
I simply have no idea what to do, so right now I am pretty much folding everything below 78o. Though i do end up getting money out of them in the end, but folding everything feels pretty bad.
Also while you good folks are at it, please guide me toward a book or a site where i can learn to play 6 max table.
Thanks and sorry for the mistakes. I hope you all didn’t burn your eyes reading this.
indeed like vtpc said, just be patient and wait for the right opportunity.
i do however like to add a few points:
i saw you mention you play a tight game and later on you said you fold anything below 78o. but this sounds like you are still very loose. if you call or raise with 78o against a maniac it’s actually very bad play (no offense). instead try to stick to the strong hands like AT-AK, KQ and 77+ and raise them back. you can also play lower pairs and broadway cards if you know the price is decent enough but call them instead. when you are sure enough only the maniac is the only one left, you can reraise him with all kinds of hands (assuming he literally raises any hand). that way any ace and any medium king is also good enough since they still have decent equity.
don’t worry about this at all. first of all, folding a lot is defenitely nothing bad at all. it’s actually very bad when you do play a lot of hands. all micro stakes and probably even most low stake games are profitable with just easy ABC poker. assuming you play 2NL (correct me if i’m wrong) ABC is a huge moneymaker, but if you choose to play a lot of hands you are gonna do the same as the other losing players there.
you also said you do get money out of them, which is also good, but i agree it’s better to get more out of them. so just stick to the strong hands and raise them back. and fold all else. if you do hit a monster against a maniac, you can also easily slowplay against him and let him finish the job for you.
i don’t really know which books/sites are good and which are not. but i can advise you to search all over the internet and stay learning. many sites offer the same advises, that way you know it’s trustworthy, and since you have read it before it also sticks in your mind easier.
i always try to improve myself, and i do so by reading about it on the internet, watching youtube sometimes and of course playing the game.
hope this helps. if not, feel free to ask.
Thanks @Vtpcwizard & @yiazmat for the comments and suggestions. I guess, I should just keep doing what i’m doing and hope not getting stacked with a set which happens quite a lot when people go allin with 47o and i am holding KK
@Underload, Your description reminds me of a great series of hands from this past year’s WSOP Main Event that changed how I approach short-handed play. The field was down to three players. Blumstein, by far the chip leader with over 100BB while each of his opponents has about 20BB, is opening strong with a very wide range of hands, and Ott and Pollak are folding. Ott realizes Blumstein is probably betting very weak hands, and starts three-betting and watching Blumstein fold. This happened about four times, then Blumstein four-bet Ott’s three-bet. Things calmed down after that, with raise and three-bet ranges becoming much more disciplined.
I’d recommend playing a more tight-aggressive game against these players. Play only your top ~10-20% of hands, with where you fall in that range dependent upon your position. If you act before them, and you want to play your hand, bet about 4-5BB. If they play before them, don’t call their opening bets, only three-bet them with a bet size of about 3.5x their initial bet. If they four-bet you, call with a bit more than half of your opening hands (with adjustments based on their raise size), and five-bet with aces, kings, AK suited, and as a bluff, a miscellaneous suited connector that you choose beforehand - 89 for example - that will have a fair bit of equity and post-flop playability even if you’re facing aces.
I understand that this is a scary strategy for players used to playing a more passive game. That doesn’t mean it’s the wrong strategy, but recognize that making gutsy plays and adjusting your approach is the only way to build your bankroll in the long run.
i can see you know good high level strategies, i just like to add a small thing: it’s very important to consider first if the opponent is a powerful reg capable of great aggressive strategies, or just a donk that only see where his raise button is located.
i saw you were referring to the WSOP, i fully agree it’s a good idea to get that kind of hands in your range when you play against a table full of seasoned pro’s. but the people the OP was talking about were most likely just donks. with these kinds i would never light 5bet (not even raising light) and just stick to simple valuebets only and never bluff.
a great example is my last downswing, i grinded myself back to about 55M, at the time i made several mistakes. and found out what my main mistake was when my bankroll was almost gone, which was fancy play syndrome, meaning to use all kinds of complicated strategies while simple ABC is just the best way. after i found out i got back to my best game.
I second this idea, not getting too fancy. Knowing high level concepts is important and can help even on low-level tables with fish, but 4-betting and 5-betting and trying to generate folds post-flop is a good way to set your chips on fire.
Most players on Replay only open when they have premium hands and only 4-bet with QQ+. It is very easy to beat these players by just folding most of the time and calling with hands that can outflop them (like set-mining).
I appreciate seeing aggressive raisers like the one described in this post because even if they aren’t good players they make you elevate your thinking. As @WannabeCoder points out, you can try testing them with 3-bets (with any hand really) to see if they can fold or if they always call or 4-bet. This information is very helpful. If they always call or re-raise, you probably shouldn’t 3-bet them with weak hands. Instead, you should just be patient. Because they are so aggressive they tend to bluff too much or overvalue their hand (like A8 on a 865 board). With a little patience you can find a hand good enough to call down with (or put them all in if they are the type that calls).
That’s really all you can do. Aggression is a key element of poker, one that separates the competent players from the really good ones. These aggressive raisers, even if they are fish who know nothing, still have a huge advantage in any given hand over the passive players who just wait to hit flops. They force you to make difficult decisions and put you under pressure as you try to figure out their weaknesses. As you move up in stakes (or so I’m told), the biggest difference is the amount of pressure your opponents can put on you, and these types of aggressive fish are just the first level of pyramid.