How crazy is this hand

100% agreed - with opens this large you cannot have a wide range. You would have a pure-value range with this sizing - maybe AJs+, AQo+, TT+, KQs or something close to that. Its very hard to get into trouble postflop with a range this strong. Pre-ante, this may be a very solid strategy for beating loose passive tables from early position. If you are going to have a range this strong, please please please at least come in with a raise and don’t limp it.


why dont you tell them about your stinking straight flush to my ace high flush, woman !

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Thanks Harley you just saved me the trouble :upside_down_face:


I was in a 45 person, $50 buy in, Live tournament with only three of us left back in Long Island, NY about 15 years ago. The same thing happened. I had the K, the other two players had the A and Q. The big stack had the A. Amazing to see it happen again with four players. This must be rarer than a Royal flush.


Who knows but murted must have been sick. :wink:

Just want to add to your excellent explanation that if you’re looking at an ace-less hand 9-handed, there’s an 80% chance someone else has an ace. This is why KTs is not as strong as some folks might think (9-handed) – 80% of the time they are behind someone else pre-flop.

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This is why we open a range and not a specific hand. It is why we open raise and don’t limp. When you mix the concepts of open raising and playing a range together, you force opponents to fold hands that have good equity against you. You force something called the gap-concept to come into play. Using the gap concept, that person with the weak ace can’t even see a flop profitably. He is behind your range, regardless of what specific hand within your range you actually hold at the moment. They have no idea if you opened KTs or AK.

Maybe its time to do another thread on ranges and opening strategies? Its probably a good idea to go over equity realization and denial when developing a preflop plan. Mostly, it would be a good idea to go over why open-limping is so bad.


I would benefit from such a thread as I have a great deal still to learn. I was pointing out the ace thing because a lot of players seem to follow the reasoning, “a king is a high card, the cards are suited, and they can make a straight, therefore this is a strong hand (in absolute terms).” Which isn’t wrong, but fails to take into account position and the strength of the hand relative to other hands. It was really directed at a different demographic than you, Warlock :wink:


ding, ding, ding - We have a winner! Give this man a Kewpie Doll.

Its never a bad idea to go through these concepts for those who are trying to learn. Yes, there are many players who think any ace is a great hand and want to see a flop with it. They are looking at the potential of having a pair of aces and don’t take into account how that will fare vs the other hands being played. There are also lots of players who don’t want to open raise any hands worse than Ax because they are afraid of someone flopping an ace. People play scared and that’s not a great way to approach the game IMO. I want people to enjoy the game as much as I do and so I try to help them play it more profitably and therefore confidently.

Moderators - do you see this? I’m being discriminated against. Honestly, I thought we were past this type of thing. Its 2020 people - a giant cat can play poker if he wants to :wink: Welcome to the Forums @PaulieCashews


Sorry, for not responding sooner but I don’t get notifications when someone posts. First off I agree with you that position matters (I like to be in last place too!) but in my opinion reading your opponents matters more or at least is equal. Here’s a link to a ridiculous bidding sequence in a low end ring game.
I had AA, good position and I lost to K9. Why? well he got a lucky straight.
But the most disturbing part was the ridiculous bidding with nothing really in their hands.
The previous hands had shown them folding early on with low raises.
I was laying low initially because I didn’t want to scare them away and it escalated in a macho bidding.
In my book anything is possible except you don’t always get what you deserve.
How many times have you folded a hand and seen a straight or a flush in your hand?

Running this through an odds calculator, once the chips are in the middle, you lose that hand about 42% of the time. Yes, AA is good… but it’s far from unbeatable, particularly multi-way.

Setting aside that you got the chips in the middle (good!), it does look like you played it pretty poorly. What were you hoping to accomplish with a min-raise from the big blind when the other three players had already limped/completed? Why not bet bigger and drive off some of your opponents’ equity? Then, after facing the first - and second! and third! - limp-raises, why just call? Long story short, your preflop game needs some work.

See, this here shows how your theory fails, since NOBODY left. Everybody went all-in PRE FLOP when I started to double the raises even though their hands were marginal at best.
You cannot predict how people react to raising/limping.
The previous hands had shown them folding early on with low raises. I wanted to build some equity by slow raising, instead I got the macho bluff which worked for one guy.

Four with suited plus the J Q K A, High hopes and the agony of defeat :slight_smile:
Two other hopeful yet unlikely Royal hands
Hand #576485410 · Replay Poker
Hand #583313008 · Replay Poker

I guess this proves your theory that you should only bet on the top 15% of cards.
This dumb donkey rookie lost $90000 with 10-ALL-INNS !