That’s almost as unlikely as Lou Gehrig getting Lou Gehrig’s disease.
I’m wondering if anyone folded a fullhouse?
Just think about how much @muted-for21d and @Opa72 could have saved themselves if they’d done the wise thing and folded their hands preflop. Instead, they all but punted off their stack and the 20K buy-in.
Thats Super crazy !!! …
Its a lesson in, long term profit.
J, Q, K, A, all have equity when flopp’n the flush draw.
If it hits, usually any 1 of these hands does win.
( unless as we see, they are aginst each other )
More often than not … Jack or higher flush does win, with 3 showing.
Top Pr w/the J had a S/SF draw, as did the Q, and K only loses to the A or SF,
so its both logical/rational for all 4 hands to continue past the flop.
When everyone gets what they think they wanted
What’s crazy is, if everyone playing the hand was a socialist, they could have split a pot with a community royal flush.
There are two more spades. What happened to them.
WOW, you suggest to fold on K10 same suit.
Any more monday morning advice…
Yes, 9-handed UTG at a passive, deep-stacked table in a 20k SnG, I would absolutely fold KTs. That’s not Monday-morning quarterbacking, it’s a tight preflop open range, similar to what I’ve advocated elsewhere on these forums.
You must be a millionaire with that kind of strategy…
I see three people that should have folded their hands to the type of action I’m sure started going down. Yes, KTs loses to a lowly AXs. Two shouldn’t have been in the hand to begin with.
KTs in UTG is definitely a fold. UTG should be playing top ten hands only and prepared to fold the bottom 5 to any 3 bet.
If everybody has that predictable of a strategy, I can make alot!
@Click, position matters, as does the number of competitors. In a 6-handed game, KTs is okay to open UTG. If I were folding KTs on the button, you’re right that I would be way too tight. Considering the number of players you have to get through when you’re under the gun, that you’ll be out of position most of the time postflop if you get called, and that you can’t afford to fold too frequently if someone behind you 3-bets, KTs really isn’t that strong. When your position is weak, you should counter that with a strong range (the converse is also true), and diluting your range’s strength with moderately-strong hands like KTs will end up costing you chips in the long run. The cooler that appeared in this hand is just one example of how that could happen.
You’ve now had two players (@2ndPair and me) advocate folding this hand in this spot. I’ve explained my rationale, and @2ndPair has gone so far as to lay out what his range would be. Instead of dismissing our viewpoints with sarcasm, let’s make this a bit more constructive. What does your 9-handed UTG open range look like? What hands are you flatting? Why is that range superior to what @2ndPair and I have advocated?
Then you’re what we like to call “good for the game”
“The beautiful thing about poker, is everyone thinks they are good.”
I don’t know the stack depths in this game but KTs would be in my opening range UTG at ~50BB effective in a tournament. I don’t play many full ring cash games but it would be a mixed frequency open for me at 100BB+. I’d open it before I open KQo UTG. I would likely not flat KTs on the BTN to an UTG open as it would be dominated by most of an UTG tight range.
Your opening ranges should reflect the dynamic on the tables, your opening size and your post flop abilities. If you are going to be 3-bet a lot, you need to tighten up. If you are going to have a ton of callers, you need to play hands that perform well multiway (make straights, flushes …). If you open large, you need a tighter range. If you open smaller, your range can expand.
Range construction isn’t cut and dry and following charts will only get you so far. @WannabeCoder is correct in that playing a very tight range will be profitable and tend to cause you fewer problems post flop. On the other hand, having a bit wider range with more board coverage can be very effective vs better opponents. Players need to make realistic evaluations of their own skills and how opponents are reacting. Construct your ranges to take both into account rather than just pick a boilerplate range from a book.
Looking at the hand posted, I’d open KTs UTG and there isn’t a hand shown that should call, other than the BB (if the open was 2-2.5x). I’m guessing this was a limped pot and that set up all the goofy calls. If you are going to play KTs UTG, you had better be opening it and not limping it in. Just my 2-cents though.
It appears to be the early stages of a 20K SnG. Blinds are 15-30, which I think is the second blind level. Typical stacks are around 80BB deep. This pot ended up swelling to over 320BB.
Given the stack depth and the player pool (little 3-betting, lots of preflop limping and calling even large open sizes), I’d tighten up and use an open size around 5-8x. Because my open size is so large, as previously stated, KTs would not be in my open range.