Hi/Lo Rules

Poker Discussion
21

I will NEVER play Royal w/you! You are relentless! LOL

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22

I am using the rules for determining the winning lo hand to determine the winning high hand to show how they are different.

Two high hands AKQJ2 and 98764 using the rules for determining lo hands would make the 4 the card that decides the winner.

23

See, my head is spinning and I’m getting a headache trying to follow your logic. Maybe someone else can jump in here and follow you…

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24

In a lo hand the lowest high card (of the five) wins.

SO … using this rule for hi

In a hi hand the highest low card (of the five) would win.

SO … AKQJ2 would lose to 98764.

The 4 being bigger than the 2.

Stick with me Rick we got Royal to play

25

NO! Ace wins high. Neither splits the low, because of the rules you hold so dear: and I quote " Low hands To win, or “qualify” for the low half of the pot, a player must be able to make a hand of 8 or lower , using five of their seven cards." NOT A 9. Nothing higher than an 8, no pairs, straights-other than the nut A-5, trips, boats, etc. NOTHING. NADA. ZIP! Still want to play Royal?? LOL

26

There can be many variations of Hi/Lo. When I played with friends for 30 odd years,
our version was 7 card stud. Each person got 2 down cards, 3 up cards, and then 2 more down. Then, after the final betting, everyone would grab 3 chips from their pot, and under the table would put either 1 chip for low, 2 chips for hi, and 3 for both in a closed fist. At the same time, everyone would disclose which way they were going. If you went both, you had to win both. A perfect low hand was 1,2,3,4,6…not suited.
1-5 was considered a straight, so not low, and all the same suit was a flush, also not a low hand. I guess my point is, you have to play by House Rules…Replay is the House, and she can choose whatever rules she wants. As long as the rules never change…and they don’t, it’s all good

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27

Good point and thanks for the short history class. I would love to see a ‘declare’ form of hi-lo, but doubt it will happen here…

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28

I wonder if your quarrel with the “half a$$ backward” low rules is bc you have not played this variant very much, and therefore the “low” game rules seem strange & illogical or you genuinely think it should be changed? You seem to indicate you understand the rules fairly well.

I think for the most part you are more having a laugh, than genuinely arguing that the rules should be changed?!?!

I do agree starting with the high card in choosing low hand seems less logical than starting with the low card. This is a funny poker discussion.

If you were to change the low rules to be a reflection of the hi rules would that mean adopting the “House rules” explained by @kelvic1414? Should hand rankings also count in the same way high hands are ruled? Should a wheel straight A2345 or a flush be disqualified from being a low hand bc its actually a high hand AKA not the lowest hand?

I guess the other point or question is: “would changing the rules to suit your logic & case make the game better, worse or remain neutral?”

@kelvic1414 this “House Rules” 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo seems like fun, but I would guess not easy for a new player to learn? It seems more complicated than the standard rules used on RP?

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29

I am not looking to change any rules, I have grown to like the “half a$$ backward” rules we play by, :slight_smile:
I was mostly just looking to have some fun. BUT !!!

If the highest card wins the high THEN the lowest card SHOULD win the lo, :slight_smile: LOL

See you at the tables !!!

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30

She is right…I know the rules but it makes it complicated the way it is.
But she makes a good point…

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31

Omaha Hi / Lo (O8), also known as Omaha hi-low split, is a variation on Omaha high-only, with the difference being that the pot is divided into two equal halves, one of which is won by the player(s) with the highest hand and one of which is won by the player(s) with the ‘worst’ or lowest hand.

To win, or ‘qualify’ for the low half of the pot, a player must be able to make a hand of 8 high or lower under the normal Omaha rules of EXACTLY two from the hand and EXACTLYthree from the board. Therefore not every pot will have a low hand possible and not every player will always be able to make a low.

The standard qualifier for Omaha Hi/Lo is 8, but variants exist where 7 or 9 lows are the maximum. This maximum is called the ‘ceiling’.

As with high-only Omaha, players compete for the pot with four hole cards, four rounds of betting, and five community cards. As in most poker games, if a player wins the hand by everyone else folding, it does not matter if they have a low hand or whether a low was even possible.

Awarding the pot

In the event that a showdown is required:

  • If no player qualifies for a Low, then the pot is awarded according to standard Omaha rules.

  • If one or more players qualify for a Low hand, then half of the main pot goes to the best High hand (according to normal Omaha rules) and half goes to the best Low hand. If several players have the same hand, then the pot may be split.

Once the main pot is awarded, side pots are awarded in the same manner.

Tie breakers for the low are decided by first looking at the high card of the best five card low hand, then the next highest card, and so on. Ace counts as low. Flushes and straights do not disqualify the low, so 5-4-3-2-A is the best possible low, even if they are all the same suit.

Examples:

8-4-3-2-A loses to 7-6-5-4-2

7-5-3-2-A loses to 6-5-3-2-A

7-6-5-3-A loses to 7-6-4-3-2

Pairs do not count towards the low hand. This means there must be three cards of unique values between eight or lower on the board for a low to be possible. Remember, Aces count as low.

Two of your cards will be used to make your best high hand and two will be used for your best low hand. The same hole card(s) may be used to claim both halves of the pot. You do not have to use all four hole cards at the showdown and you do not need to have a low hand in order to claim the high pot.

Note: In live games, a player is obliged to show all four of their hole cards at showdown, even if they are using As-Ad for high, the same Ad with another card for the low and have a card which is not used to claim any part of the pot.

A player does not have to ‘declare’ high or low, like in some stud games, so it is possible to call with a low hand and find a small pair is enough to win the high hand.

If there is an odd number of chips in the pot, it will be awarded to the high half of the pot. The high hand is traditionally awarded first.

As per standard rules of poker, if there is an odd amount of chips in a pot which is tied between two players, the player in the earliest position will receive it.

Strategy

Playing for both halves of the pot:

When considering whether to play a hand, or whether to continue in a pot with a draw, it is important to assess whether you are trying to win all of the pot or just have chances to win half. Pot odds for trying to make a flush or straight are significantly worse when half of the pot goes to the low hand. Combination hands such as A-x suited are premium and can present opportunities to hold the nuts for at least half of the pot and the possibility to ‘scoop’ the whole pot if you are lucky.

Being quartered

A player is said to be quartered when they win only half of one of the pots and their opponent(s) win all of either the high or low pot and half of the other pot. Be careful to not get carried away with the nut low if the action is fierce because you may get back less than you put in, even with the nuts! On the other hand, having the nut high and several players with low hands can reap rich rewards.

Being counterfeited

Holding the best low in the early stages of the pot can be ruined at the turn or the river. Having the A-2 nut low on a perfect looking 4-6-8 flop is vulnerable to another ace or two on the turn, making a better low possible, unless you also have a three in your hand.

Trivia

It is possible to make the best possible hand in a tournament and still get knocked out.

Imagine you have just a single chip left and it is the lowest denomination chip left in play. You post a big blind and are all in against two opponents who check all the way to a showdown. Your hand qualifies for the nut low but since there are three chips in the pot, the high half winner gets two of them. The player in the small blind has the same nut low as you, but there is only one chip and he is in earlier position.

Qualifying Low Hands from Best to Worst

1. A-2-3-4-5
2. A-2-3-4-6
3. A-2-3-5-6
4. A-2-4-5-6
5. A-3-4-5-6
6. 2-3-4-5-6
7. A-2-3-4-7
8. A-2-3-5-7
9. A-2-4-5-7
10. A-3-4-5-7
11. 2-3-4-5-7
12. A-2-3-6-7
13. A-2-4-6-7
14. A-3-4-6-7
15. 2-3-4-6-7
16. A-2-5-6-7
17. A-3-5-6-7
18. 2-3-5-6-7
19. A-4-5-6-7
20. 2-4-5-6-7
21. 3-4-5-6-7
22. A-2-3-4-8
23. A-2-3-5-8
24. A-2-4-5-8
25. A-3-4-5-8
26. 2-3-4-5-8
27. A-2-3-6-8
28. A-2-4-6-8
29. A-3-4-6-8
30. 2-3-4-6-8
31. A-2-5-6-8
32. A-3-5-6-8
33. 2-3-5-6-8
34. A-4-5-6-8
35. 2-4-5-6-8
36. 3-4-5-6-8
37. A-2-3-7-8
38. A-2-4-7-8
39. A-3-4-7-8
40. 2-3-4-7-8
41. A-2-5-7-8
42. A-3-5-7-8
43. 2-3-5-7-8
44. A-4-5-7-8
45. 2-4-5-7-8
46. 3-4-5-7-8
47. A-2-6-7-8
48. A-3-6-7-8
49. 2-3-6-7-8
50. A-4-6-7-8
51. 2-4-6-7-8
52. 3-4-6-7-8
53. A-5-6-7-8
54. 2-5-6-7-8
55. 3-5-6-7-8
56. 4-5-6-7-8
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32

Replay Poker recently launched two new poker variants: Seven Card Stud and Hi/Lo. Ready to dip your toes in the water? We have a guide for you to get started with Hi/Lo.

Starting hands

Until you get experienced, fold hands that aren’t connected.

Start with three low cards, three running cards, three suited cards, or pairs for the initial bet. You might want to raise the “bring in” bet if your hand is particularly attractive, or the majority of your opponents have medium to high cards showing.

Betting

Remember that in Fixed Limit poker, Third Street and Fourth Street are set at the low blind level. Because of this, it’s usually fine to call some action on the Fourth card if you get that far, providing you don’t whiff completely or any opponent raises with an obviously good card.

  • An ace for your opponent is usually strong because it counts as both high and low.
  • Be mindful that if players start with a low card and are dealt another low card, they may be well on their way to completing a low draw — or have at least a pair.

Observation is key

Keep a mental note of the folded cards. You’ll want to know exactly how many of your suit are left if you’re aiming for a flush. Not to mention if anyone else may have one! Also keep tabs on how many straight or pair cards are left which could hit you.

A rule of thumb is that most players fold on Third, Fifth, or Seventh Street. For most players, if their hand is good enough to take the fourth card, it’s usually all right to call another bet on the cheaper Fourth Street.

If you get to the sixth card, you should only have played on fifth street with a good understanding of your objectives for the pot. Pot odds should be attractive enough to take the final card.

Don’t get trapped looking for half!

Just like in Omaha Hi/Lo, shooting for half the pot with a draw is a very bad proposition.

The best you can hope for is a little more than your money back. Even if you do catch, you often get quartered or lose altogether. That’s not to say never, ever go for one side of the pot — sometimes it’s clear that you’re the only one who has a strong chance. Still, it is a situation you should avoid until you become experienced.

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33

Hi/Lo games to me are the most dynamic and most fun, you always have to keep on your toes, and rags can be riches so you tend to play more hands. It is also the only game you can pair your Aces and be upset lol. Have fun :slight_smile:

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34

Great explanation of the game @Craig_Anthony and so proud it was introduced here at Replay for us all a long time ago. A very challenging and complex poker game, in this free chip platform is a great way to learn from experience and always continue learning the Great game of Omaha Hi-Lo!!

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35

Well then I’m happy you can admit that men should be the ones making the rules! :roll_eyes:

Its a fun and interesting game, as is Royal poker! I much prefer Royal!

@southwestmba I find it interesting that most players have very little interest to play standard Omaha at least in the ring games! Personally I’m not even sure what’s the better game between standard Omaha or Hi/Lo, but it seems very clear in ring games what players prefer!

@AngelinaB Good Luck with the Crazy man rules! :laughing:

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Oh no, not “Crazy man rules” but “half a$$ backward man made rules”

Oh wait, no real difference, we are talking about men you know. :slight_smile:

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37

Yeah, the people who made the rules of the game made it backwards, it’s not a site rule, it’s literally the rules of the game

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38

Take it up with who made the game. You cannot be upset at the rules of the game. 8432A doesn’t beat 76543 as it shouldn’t it makes sense to most people who play. If it bothers you THIS much maybe just don’t play it?