If a paired board flops, I will very often bluff here if noone bets. This to me is a “lie” , I’m telling the other players I have trips when I know that is untrue. I am trying to get them to fold by knowingly misrepresenting my hand so that I can steal their money.
Total lie 
and totally immoral, What a game !
It’s a game where the general idea is to identify the weak so you can then exploit them. The game is best played with ruthless disregard for their well-being, and in fact, the goal of tournament play is to take everything they have and keep it for yourself.
the path to victory uses trickery, deception, and aggression and is strewn with the bodies of the fallen. In the end, there can be only one.
Yet, it’s a socially acceptable outlet for those who enjoy carnage and mayhem, and I do love the game in all its gory glory!
But I still don’t think lying is a part of it.
NOUN
deception (noun) · deceptions (plural noun)
the action of deceiving someone.
“obtaining property by deception”
synonyms:
… dissembling · bluff · bluffing · lying · pretence · artifice · treachery · …
I have no clue what I am going to do until that split second especially after a few G+T`s - I like random often shout at my screen saying please fold please fold and when somebody calls I shake my own head
Tiggs xxx
n. A receptionist whose job is actually to delay or block potential visitors. Ruthless with a polite, perfect smile.
I don’t know why some people insist on using the word “ Liar “ there is no lying in poker !!!
It is what I call “ Tactically Persuasive “
Doesn’t sound such a great title for a thread though does it “How to spot a tactically persuasive player”
It’s a lot better than calling poker players LIARS !!!
Can’t say the word bothers me. I find it a rather amusing take on the game, and I’m sure other posters have the same take on the word.
The problem with objecting to it on moral grounds, is that it is imho actually true
I haven’t read any convincing argument that bluffing is anything other than lying, in order to steal some other guy’s money, usually by getting him to fold with a stronger hand.
Whether it offends your moral sensibilities or not, is really irrelevant to the fact that it is a form or lying.
You should reread the entire thread then….
Yes, bluffing (a bet with low equity cards) is absolutely not lying. I think that is a statement of fact, and that to think otherwise is to either not understand what it means to lie, or to not understand what “bluff” means in the context of poker.
Well lets agree to disagree, bluffing imho is almost certainly a form of lying. Certainly the dictionary agrees too.
And that is the reason that the word “liar” is so effective in this context . It makes people see the game from a new angle and makes them confront the uncomfortable thought “oh yeah bluffing… I never thought of myself as a liar before”
I’m not going to agree to disagree when you tell me 2+2 is 5. I think you are confused about the difference in semantic boundaries between the word “lie”, and the word “deception”. There is overlap between them, but they are not the same.
A bluff is deceptive, but it is not a lie. A lie is making a statement of fact that one knows to be untrue. There is no statement of fact being made by a bet.
Is it a lie for a running back to feint in one direction, but to go another? Of course not. It is deceptive, but it is not a lie. A bluff in poker is almost exactly the same thing.
lets agree to disagree, ( as I think it is you who is confused , bluffing imho is a form of lying )
to express what is false; convey a false impression.
So by this definition , this most certainly fits with your definition of a bluff which is “to convey a false impression” ie deceptive
So perfectly reasonable to think of bluffing as lying. No 2+2=5 here, just reasonable opinion
I’d rather not….
I’ll just celebrate your lack of understanding of the English language. You’re back to saying that because it is deceptive, it is a lie.
Think of “deception” as a big circle. “Lie” then is a smaller circle. Probably all lies are deceptive. All things that are deceptive are not lies.
But that was probably too hard for you.
lol, I’ve given you two dictionary definitions of lying which any reasonable person could use to conclude that bluffing can be a form of lying.
Here they are again
to express what is false; convey a false impression.
NOUN
deception (noun) · deceptions (plural noun)
the action of deceiving someone.
“obtaining property by deception”
synonyms:
… dissembling · bluff · bluffing · lying · pretence · artifice · treachery · …
Which one are you saying is wrong ? Should not write to them and point out “their lack of understanding of the English language”
Conclusion: It really is best to agree to disagree here.
You seem to think that because you have thrown some paint against a wall, you have defined what a wall is.
Neither definition is wrong. Neither definition is creating even a slight suggestion that a bluff is a lie.
You seem to think that because there is semantic overlap, that two things are the same; that if two words are synonyms, they have the same meaning. I’d hope most reading this thread don’t suffer from that confusion.
You also seem to be assuming that the word “bluff” broadly in its use in the English language is specifically the same as the meaning of the word in poker. That is obviously not the case. To bluff in poker: to place money in the pot with a hand unlikely to win at showdown.
I’d also point out that a bluff in poker is sometimes not even deception. Someone playing a GTO style is not even trying to deceive. They are simply creating the optimal balance of hand strength for their bets that will maximize chips won against an opponent playing optimally. They are doing nothing other than trying to make the best moves in the game.
As a humorous aside, I might accuse you of lying because you are making the false assertion that a bluff in poker is a lie. But that would be wrong. I don’t think I can make that assertion because a lie requires two things: a false statement of fact; knowledge that that statement is false. I suspect you lack the latter.
I think perhaps you might benefit from being told what a “definition” is. It is a group of people trying to think of some words that explain how a word is often used. Neither definition you provided was lengthy, or took an effort to rigorously define the semantic space of the word “lie”. Neither did a particularly good job of keying on the core points that are required for anything to be a lie:
Again, neither definition was incorrect. They both made a short effort at explaining how the word is used in English. I submit that the definition above does a better job of defining the boundaries between what is a lie and what is not. Note, that this was not the main goal of either short definition you provided.
Please can we get this discussion back on track rather than arguing about the definition of words. If no one wishes to discuss the actual topic then I will close it.
Thank you.
