Calling with absolutely nothing?

Poker Strategy
1

Take this hand for instance.

Heads-up at a 4-seat ring table. Admittedly bluffing and being very aggressive preflop is essential heads-up, as is a willingness to re-raise, and to call wide because of it. But I can’t make sense of my opponent’s play in this hand.

SB limps, I go to 5BB with A2o and get re-raised to 15BB. I 4-bet shove for my whole stack… plainly a bluff, I’m hoping to take it down preflop, but I get called… by 54o. We both miss the board and I win most of my opponent’s stack.

This player had gotten me to lay down some better hands previous in the session, but due to the board texture I gave them credit, and this time I wasn’t willing to lie down. You’d think a hand like 54o folds to a 10x 4-bet shove, would you?

Or take this hand.

10k/20k, 6-seat ring, four players at the table. I have AQo in the SB seat, and we’re 4-seated at a 6-seat ring table. The action limps around to me, and I make it 5BB. The player in the BB chair is the small stack and 3-bets to 9BB, 180k or about 25% of his stack. The rest of the table folds, I decide to shove. BB snap calls, and shows Doyle Brunson’s hand, T2o. I flop an Ace and he pairs his Two on the Turn and loses his stack.

I do not ask for review of these specific hands; they are but examples of a type of situation I run into sometimes. It’s OK to bluff sometimes with garbage, I suppose, if it will put your opponent off-balance or make it more likely that they call you when you do hit a strong hand and want to get paid off. But I don’t see the point of raising with junk, and then calling off when you get re-raised.

That said, I get killed constantly when people do call with random garbage hands and suck out a pair to beat me when I miss with hands like AK or AQ or AJ. Usually though they’re hero calling after they flop a pair and a draw, or when they know that my range isn’t finding many good hands with the board we got.

How do I think like my opponent and make sense of these types of plays? Is it simply that they’re bored and don’t care? Or could there be anything more to it than that?

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2

They gave you nice donations, a question of ego on their part and curiosity to test their luck in big pots, but also ask yourself if you played well on your side, the second hand is really well played considering the opponent’s profile, the first one I agree less

2 Likes
3

First of this is a pissing contest, seeing who got the biggest d1ck…
2nd I’d like you to explain who you shove 3mil when your opponent has a 1/2 mil. That right there shows what kind of math you use. The rake comes of what you put in the pot, not what you take out…

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4

I don’t understand your point about the rake on the second hand. What’s the rake got to do with the size of my opponent’s stack when considering what hands to shove?

5

I believe the rake is a non issue in this case. Here’s Replay’s rake schedule for the stakes of the game it appeared they were playing:

Ring Game Rake

High Stake 10K/20K & 20K/40K - 5% with a max of 2000 chips

So the max rake was 2,000 chips, and Puggy’s shove had no effect on that number. The pot hit 320,000 before his shove, so the max rake of 2,000 chips was already long gone.

Also, it’s a hell of a lot easier to one-click an “all in” that it is to type in “559,296” for your bet.

Also note that Puggy’s shove did not mean all his chips hit the pot - only the number needed to get his opponent “all-in” hit the pot once the opponent called his shove. So, in a hypothetical situation where the Replay rake was purely percentage based with no limit, the rake would have only been based on the the max it took to get the lower stack all-in. His shove does not somehow make it larger as the excess chips never appear in the pot.

2 Likes
6

Ranges widen heads up, but do not become random. I think you can raise over a limp with A2o, but if you do that always, then does not raising mean you have no aces of any kind in range? For that reason, I typically don’t raise with weak, unsuited aces (though I do make exceptions). After the limp 3 bet, I think A2o is just a fold, unless you’ve seen your opponent 3 bet with random hands pretty often. The sizing of your 4 bet was also a bit ill-advised… I don’t see any benefit to going all in at that point. Obviously, the call with 54 is just a money loser, as it is behind your range even if you take this line with absolutely every possible hand, and typically your 4! range here should be very strong, let alone when making an over-bet like this.

I think your play here is good, both the opening raise and the jam over the min raise, though I’d normally consider AQo as part of the bluff end of my 4 betting range here. You are less than 100BB effective here, and 4 handed rather than 8, but I still think the ranges below are pretty close.

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For both players, their calls at the end look like tilt to me?

1 Like
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Actually if you look at the replay again, you’ll see that the full amount goes into the pot and then comes out again. I wasn’t aware that there was a cap on the rake. I always assumed that the rake was a straight % in which case, my bad.

For convenience sake, let’s say the rake is 10%
10% of 1/2mil is 50,000
10% of 3mil is 300,000
That is 5x more money you’re giving away with NO return. In fact if it was 10% you would lose half your profit if you win!

8

Guess what ? Replay Poker has become the Wild, Wild West. Adapt or be left nursing your wounds. Prove me wrong.

9

It does go in - but I wonder if the fact that it does not stay in is relevant. In other words, is the Replay rake on the final pot only, whatever that may be. That’s a question above my paygrade.

10

I could be wrong, but I thought no rake was taken in hands that resolve preflop?

11

When I am on a table and 2 or 3 are shoving almost every hand I wait I watch sooner or latter you get their chips. Their read is easy. I limp in on a good hand and follow their bingo led. On replay, their not playing with their money. I play like it is mine just like I do at a Casino …simple.

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12

I do the same thing and they get lucky every time.

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13

And I’m thankful :+1:t2:

14

You’re probably programming yourself to have a negative view. The statement above is obviously false. Why make it? A revised version might be, “I do the same thing and they get lucky some of the time, and it often feels like it is every time, because when they don’t get lucky, it feels right, and I don’t dwell on it, and when they do get lucky I start screaming and throwing things.” :grin:

3 Likes
15

I would never do that! But i am to kind to be rich in chips i belive!

16

It amounts to the same thing, and you knew what I meant, but my way was less typing :slight_smile:

I mean, it’s obviously exaggeration, I did post two hands that I actually won to start this thread. But they’re the exception, not the rule.

I all-in and flip up a dominant hand like AK over any lower Ace, they pair their bottom card and I miss. Or they flop trips, or I hit top pair and watch them run out a four on the board flush that they complete with the rag card from their hand. So many sick ways to run out. Even when I win they’re usually one card from filling some monster draw.

17

There you go again !!! Preprogrammed negativity…

18

At the present time I’ll need to run blazing hot for 400,000 hands to make up for the negativity that Replay has programmed into me, because it will take that many hands to realize expected results of variance.

I offer anyone who doubts me on how bad my luck is a virtually risk free 100k: we’ll meet at an agreed upon time at a 1/2 stakes 2-seat ring table and go all-in preflop for 100 hands in a row, regardless of the cards dealt. I’ve done this twice now, and both times my opponent took about 2/3 of the hands.

Afterwards I’ll post the starting hand here for anyone to watch if they like.

So who wants a free 100k?

19

Let me see if I can get El-J to help you out with that project.

20

I can’t imagine the prospect of playing 1/2 bingo for 100 hands would interest him. But I’ll take anyone who wants a free 100 buy-ins for all the effort of clicking a button mindlessly.