23 is a BS hand to play from ANY position period. see response to SunPowerGuru.
Iām talking about even playing a 23 in the first place. Anything with a 3 pre-flop is a dumpā¦except maybe A3 K3 in loose games in position with goofs that play 23, lol
Heās and idiot for even playing 23. If you donāt know who this guy is you really are clueless See: Hold 'em Poker: For Advanced Players: Sklansky, David, Malmuth, Mason: 9781880685228: Amazon.com: Books
another source: Advanced Poker Training - Article - NL Holdāem Poker Starting Hand Charts
and every other book on the subject 23 suited is āunplayableāā¦
So Iām clueless if I donāt know who Sklansky is? Whew, since I do, in fact, know who he is, I guess Iām just an idiot, not a clueless idiot.
25 years ago, Sklansky was at the leading edge of poker theory. Thatās a lot like saying Euclid was once at the cutting edge of astronomy. Both are true, and equally meaningless.
I suspect Sklansky would defend his BB when getting 5-1 and closing the action, 23s or not.
Of the lines taken by the three players, I think calling with 23s was the most reasonable.
Had the button opened for 3 or 4 BB, it would have been correct for 23s to fold. As played, it was close, (vs those specific holdings) but not idiotic.
Had the A6 raised, 23s should have folded because he would no longer be closing the action, would probably have to fold if the button re-raised, and wouldnāt have been getting a great price to see a flop.
Please donāt invite me to your home game! I already have a house and car, I donāt need yours. 
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Easy dear boy. Doug Polk, It isnāt on his opening hands in any position either. Lol. Euclid aināt dead, and your current math GTO buddy Doug has enough sense not to play this BS 23 pre-flopā¦ Daniel, Phil, pick any pro let me know where you see a UTube with this BSā¦ the real point is what are the odds of quad 3ās with a 23 vs. KK or A6ā¦ off the chart BS pal. Run it take a deck pull out 23s, A6 KK and tell me how many times a 23s wins? ā¦ let alone comes up with quadsā¦ total BS.
Iām not seeing what 2,3 did wrong. he was in big blind. 2,3 put in 10 more making it 20, you bumped it up 10 more making it 30, he bumped it up to 40 and finally you bumped it up to 50. how is a raise of 10 chips each time till it got to 50 chips supposed to scare anyone off? if it was a full table, everyone should be calling. 2,3 didnāt even needed that last 3 as he had both you beat on flop and turn . 3 on river just icing on the cake.
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Hereās a cash game big blind vs button GTO defense chart from Doug Polkās site. Notice that 32s is a call.
Itās not really about how often it wins but whether when it does win it pays enough to compensate for the risk. Even if it wins only 1 hand in 7, if it gets paid 8:1 (or more) when it does win then thatās obviously a profitable play.
This is a hand from the noob tables on a free poker site. Almost any two cards can be profitable because people will pay you off with their whole stacks when you hit.
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Implying that I am one of those GTO guys hurts my feelings.
I donāt think I can continue to talk to you after that!
Goodbye!!!
PS: He didnāt need to make quads on the river, he only had to fade the remaining 2 aces and 2 kings.
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No. I donāt miss the point. Itās a call every time in that situation. If he misses the flop itās a simple fold but on the 1 in 7 times he hits the flop he will be playing for stacks, as happened here. It cost 5bb to put himself in a position to win a pot containing 431bb (86 times his pre flop investment). Thatās way better than the 8/1 he needs to make it profitable. Thatās simple maths.
Also, He had better equity pre flop than you did after the flop, so there is that to consider.
Its poker, not should or shouldnāt fold, so maybe you donāt let it tilt you so easily.
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What do you think would have happend if the Button raised 3x the pot, the A6 should re-raise that raise 3x, so by the time it gets to 23, he should dump because there have been way too much juice to risk 23s connectorsā¦ this is another way to point out how weak this hand is even in BB position. Re: Dougās chart, he is in the minority here, most 23s are not even in the realm of being worth considering playing. IF this was hi steaks 23s would be insane to play a 6X pot raise to see the flop.
What do you think would have happend if the Button raised 3x the pot, the A6 should re-raise that raise 3x, so by the time it gets to 23, he should dump because there have been way too much juice to risk 23s connectorsā¦ this is another way to point out how weak this hand is even in BB position. Re: Dougās chart, he is in the minority here, most 23s are not even in the realm of being worth considering playing. IF this was hi steaks 23s would be insane to play a 6X pot raise to see the flop.
Doug is out on a limb hereā¦ see: Advanced Poker Training - Article - NL Holdāem Poker Starting Hand Charts
Iām sure that hack Doug Polk will appreciate being informed heās āout on a limb.ā Itās a wonder heās made any money at this damn game. Armed with this new information, heāll probably start raking it in!!
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The poker training site linked above starts withā¦
āThere are no perfect No-Limit starting hand charts. That is because there are many factors that affect your decision, and charts cannot account for all of them.ā
It then goes on to list charts for 3 different situationsā¦
CHART #1 ā LOOSE, PASSIVE GAME (OFTEN 4-5 LIMPERS PER HAND)
NO ONE HAS RAISED YET
CHART #2 ā TIGHTER GAME (FEWER LIMPERS) OR MORE AGGRESSIVE GAME
NO ONE HAS RAISED YET
CHART #3 ā THERE HAS BEEN A SINGLE RAISE (3ā5 TIMES THE BIG BLIND) BEFORE YOU
Since none of these charts come close to describing the situation, what am I supposed to be looking at? Is there a chart for three-handed button min raises when youāre the BB and the SB flats? Or doesnāt any of that matter and youāre always an idiot like Doug Polk for playing 23s?
Please donāt reply to me directly because Iām not talking to you, thanks!
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Elvoid, take a deck, pull out any 23 suited, pull out two Kings, and an Ace and a 6. Play the flop, run it several timesā¦ add a turn and a river, ā¦ let me know how that works out for ya! The very beginning stats I posted gave you the percentages going into the flop. Hey donāt take my word for it you run it several times ā¦ this is also a good way to practice the nuances that can happen on 4th and 5th street
I was in a SnG last night, and couldnāt find a chart to tell me what do do in a specific situation. Being an enterprising fella, I constructed my own chart once the blinds got to 300/600, then followed it religiously until the bubble burst.
This is homieās first chart, so let me know what Doug Polk and Sklansky would thinkā¦
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Youāre not telling me anything I donāt already know.
You also seem to have trouble accepting that your question (if thatās what it was) has been answered by several people - some of them far more knowledgeable about poker than you or I.
You just donāt like the answer. Doesnāt make the answer wrong.
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Note that, in my chart, 23s is an open from UTG in this particular situation.
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Ooooooooooā¦ Can I use that??? Green is my lucky color!!!
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One of the charming facts about poker is that you can lose most of the hands yet still win most of the money.
TexasBigBoy, roll a die a few dozen times. See how many times you roll a 6. Not too often right? Does that mean I shouldnāt bet on a six coming up?
The answer is we donāt know yet because we didnāt define the payouts.
Keep rolling that die a few more dozen times. If it rolls a 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 Iāll pay you $1. But if it rolls a 6 you pay me $10. Deal?
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