Any Pros on Replay?

If that’s the only thing you have to say, we can peacefully end this conversation.

Cheers.

lol

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But what is the definition of a pro? Is it someone who derives part of their income from winning poker games, and if that is the case what percentage of their income has to come from poker to qualify as a pro?

If I make 10% of my income from online poker and 90% from Social Security, does that make me a pro?

Or is it someone who derives ALL of their income from poker winnings, or someone who derives all of their income from poker, including winnings from games, Youtube video income, endorsements, taking consultancy fees from online poker sites, writing books and articles, teaching poker, running a poker web site, working in a casino, and so on?

What is a tennis pro? What is a golf pro?

I would call someone a pro if poker is all they do. This would include making commercials and writing books and so on. Poker pros are not allowed to have a day job, it’s gotta be all or at least mostly poker.

If you do other stuff, I would say you are a semi-pro if about half or more of your earnings were from poker. If you’re up at 80% - 90% or more and want to call yourself a pro, OK, close enough for me.

Much less than that and I would say serious amateur.

I heard or read somewhere once that if you make $20,000 you’re a pro. This seems laughable to me, probably came from some 1998 writing or some such decade.

My thinking on the question is that it is an individuals choice to become a pro like any other profession. In legality terms it all comes down to April, 15th and what the hell does your taxes say. There are many advantages to filing as a pro on your taxes as opposed to not filing as a pro. Simple example would be expense deductions that you as a pro could claim for travel, rooms, food, ect. that a non pro could not claim even if they had the exact same travel expense. For cash game pros there is a schedule that allows you to claim or deduct the bottom line of you profit/loss whereas a non pro has to file all of his sessions as separate transaction which can result in a much higher liability. Example of this… say you have 5 sessions of +450, +385, -412, +269, and -182. The pro would pay taxes on the net profit minus any expense deductions so $510 minus expenses. The non pro however has to file in a way that he’s paying taxes on all his winning sessions first before his losses are accounted for. Any tax pros here that can help us out on this?

I hope that’s not the case. In tournament poker, cash comes in lumps, but goes out as a fine dust. I have well over 20k in tourney winnings, but spent a lot in entries too. If I’m a pro, I figure I have a shot at being the worst pro in the history of poker. Something to shoot for, I guess.

Play enough $10 and $20 1,100 seat MTTs, and you will do well in at least a few of them. If I remember right, the $20 tourneys paid over 8K for a win and something like at least 1k for a final table. You’re probably playing like 5 of these a day, which is a grind and costs $100 a day. In a good month, you’re in the money close to 50% with a nice handful of final tables and a win or close to it. In a bad month, you’re down 3k or more. None of this seems like pro level stuff to me.

I think online gambling was always a grey area of the law. I never even considered filing my taxes as a poker pro. I don’t think I was a pro, so why would I?

LOL, yeah I was pretty trolling with this statement. I did read that though, probably in a very old poker book. Or some article somewhere from way back in the day.

I think you’re only really a pro though if you file as a pro. If you play enough, even if you have other steams of income, there could be some benefits to filing as a poker pro. I would not be all the surprised if this held true even if your other source of income actually made you more money. We all know when it comes to taxes it’s all about them deductions. :slight_smile:

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Also, I see people do all kinds of craziness to get around these taxes. Like win a small bad beat or high hand promotion and wait a couple days to hit up the ATM in the casino just to put the money in their pocket. They don’t need or want the money, right now they’re after the all mighty casino ATM receipt. Haha!

Gambling winnings must be declared as taxable income, even if you are a casual gambler, however you may deduct gambling losses from winnings as long as you have documentary proof of those losses.

A payer is required to issue you a[Form W-2G, Certain Gambling Winnings if you receive certain gambling winnings or have any gambling winnings subject to federal income tax withholding.

If you win prizes like cash, vacations or cars on TV shows like The Price Is Right or Jeopardy! these are also taxed as ordinary income.

If you are self employed as a joueur and a US citizen, you can file taxes on Schedule C, in which case you can deduct some necessary expenses such as travel, rooms, and food, but you would also have to pay 15.4% social security and Medicare tax on your net income over $400 plus income tax which would depend on other factors like family size, dependents, other income, and so on.

So you see, if you win the WSOP main event, in spite of there being a mountain of cash bills on the final table, you will not escape the beady eye of Uncle Samuel who will scoop up a big chunk of the money before you even see it, and when you have pay off your sponsors, you had better make sure you issue them W2s.

I would imagine that given the nature of gambling and gamblers and the temptations that go with spendng a lot of time in places like Las Vegas, that many of the high-profile poker players on TV have gotten into trouble with their taxes at some time in their lives.

None of my acquaintances have taken the bracelet, but some have finished well into the money. Not only is Mekon correct, he has understated it. After paying all the allowable expenses–which do NOT include the player’s personal food, BTW–and settling with those who “own a piece of the action,” it’s entirely possible to lose money and still owe taxes unless you’ve finished in the top 15 or so places. Most so-called pros also have another thing going for them (writing poker books, selling lessons or coaching, for example) because wins don’t always come when you want them and your daily expenses keep on coming just like everyone else’s. At that point, it isn’t enough merely to be a successful “gambler,” you also need a really knowledgeable tax accountant (who won’t be cheap to employ, either).

Like walk around at the racetrack collecting losing tickets off the floor? You need enough of them to show losses in excess of your winnings!

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