Another dumb question - folders (to go with my raisers)

I saw that some high ranking players sometimes fold when they can check, This is kind of cool, and I have started doing it from time time when I cannot read anything good into a hand.

Is there any thing on this?

Its a time thing?

I doubt I fall into the “good player” category, but I do that frequently. It isn’t to save time for me, but to keep me out of trouble. If I can clearly see that only a miracle will give m a winner, why stick around, catch a second–or third–best hand and waste chips I can save by folding when I’m pretty sure I’ll lose anyway? Yes, unlikely things happen, but not necessarily when I want them to. That’s my reasoning. But, as I said, I’m not all that good. Trust your own judgment. Ron (Alan25main)


Hi Clarissima, It is not a dumb question at all. Folding to no bet is something people generally do when they don’t want to show their cards to everyone at a showdown and quite common on Replay.

To me, its is quite poor strategy and can be an expensive mistake. You are giving up all of the times your bad hand snags a winner for free. You still have a shot at the pot if you check instead of fold.

Some players would also advise against it because they say it is bad etiquette. You are giving players after you in the action an advantage because they know have one less player to worry about if they are considering a bet, especially if they are willing to bluff.


actually it is a horrible strategy imo, the thing in poker is to try to get as high EV as possible, if you fold with the possibilty to check you know for 100% sure that folding gives -EV and checking is neutral. if you really really hate your hand you can always fold when a bet is made.

here an example to make it more clear:
your hand is 23, the board is J8A59. now you know 100% sure you never win the hand, but does this mean you can fold now with the possibility to check? the answer is no, see here why:
lets say you have 1 opponent and there is 1000 in the pot, now you fold, your opponent has 100% chance to get that 1000.
lets say now you check, and he checks too. you will never win this pot but if he has to play the board too you will get a split, lets say there is 1% chance (not the real odds, just an example) he has also play the board, and this split means you win 500 of that pot, but it happens only 1% of the time so your EV on the river is 5. this may be not much but it is always better to have 5 then 0, so even in the most extreme example possible you will win more by checking then folding can you imagine what happens with bigger chances.
so simply said: your EV is ALWAYS bigger when checking the it is when folding.


There are no dumb questions if the person asking has the honest intention of gaining information from the responses.

This is not only with high ranking players. Unfortunately it is too common at all levels I have seen so far. Both Chasetheriver and yiazmat had good responses here on why it is bad play and bad form in most cases. I only wanted to add a little about why I believe we see so much of it here.

I have consistently seen players limping into pots from all positions here, whether in ring games or tournaments. At a 9-seat table, it is not uncommon to see 7 players limp in to see a flop. Of course that flop isn’t going to help most of them and so a good portion of the players give up. Some will preemptively fold here (or on the next street if checked down).

Without reservation, I will say this is a bad play but only a symptom of an even worse play, the limp. People here think the game is about who can connect the best with flops. They want to see every flop they can and just hope something good happens. No worry about position or thoughts of anything other than “if the flop is 3/4/6, then my 7/5o is gold” goes through their heads. When the flop comes 9/J/A, they muck and wait for the next hand. That is not poker. Not sure what to call that game.

So, if you see players doing this, they generally are not playing any sort of solid game. Exploit this weakness when you can by making them pay more to see cards. If you see someone entering pot after pot limping, raise them on your premium hands and force them to spend more to see the cards. They will go broke faster and you will chip-up through their weak play.

Good luck.


I guess here is where we make a pitch for knowing your starting hands, meaning assessing the two cards you were dealt, the true first thing a good player does. Most people don’t know which is the best of these starting hands, 83o, 84o, 73o, 72s, or 94s. Here is a handy chart that folks should have so they can learn the 169 starting hands.

One good way of learning is to learn the highest 15 hands and vow to yourself to only play those hands. They are AA, KK, QQ, AK (suited), JJ, 1010, AQ (suited), AJ (suited), AK (off suit), KQ (suited), A10 (suited), KJ (suited), AQ (off suit), 99, and JQ (suited). Yes, you will only be playing one out of nine hands. Yes, this will become boring. But if you learn these hands your game will improve immensely.



100% agree. I’d go even further than this and look for charts on starting hands by position. That A9o isn’t something to open with UTG but if folded around to you and you pick it up on the button, it is absolutely worth opening. In other words, the later the position, the larger the range of hands you can open with profitably.

I’ve seen charts where you are only opening UTG with about 3.5% of the hands but opening well more than 50% from the button (on 9-seat tables). This is a game of luck and skill. If you rely purely on luck, you cannot hope to be a winner over the long term. The very 1st steps anyone should take when learning the game (aside from hand rankings) is to get familiar with the basic odds, outs and profitable opening ranges. Before going into GTO strategies or anything else, learn ABC poker. If you have a solid basic game, you will win chips over the long term against a population that does not have the basics down.

Encouraging players to think about the nuts and bolts of the game and therefore get more enjoyment out of it through longevity is something Replay is keen to do.

We have a basic ‘Golden’ rules List here:

If anyone else has any nuggets to pitch in, we would be happy to consider adding them. They are in no particular order and aimed for Play chips play on the whole, but having cash poker discipline for your play chips is probably Step 1, imo.

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Folding a check:
Bottom line here, its about showing you will fold when you have nothing. This is part of a players’ overall table presense story, but can be used as a way to make sure a player doesn’t get into trouble or looks like a patsy for the bullies.

Take 3d-3s for example… the flop comes Ah Kd 9h … sure you can keep checking if possible hoping for the miracle 3c because the 3h helps the flush draw. Lets also say there are 3 ppl other than you left in the hand… 1 likes to bully everyone, 2 notorious slow player, and 3 the dude thats on fire right now… I can see various reasons to fold, but lets face it you’re hand isn’t going anywhere, and it shows the table that if you stay in a hand, you have a legitimate shot at winning… no matter if people bet or not.


" You are giving players after you in the action an advantage " : this is what I thought it might be about. How about calling (a small one) when there are two bullies on the table, then folding, just to key them up more :slight_smile:

Hmm, folding is what bullies like to see. Best strategy is check for free, fold when they bully until you have a strong hand and make them pay when you call or set them in

Don’t forget to put a smiley face after they themselves fold to your re-raise. )) Or you could do a pffffff!

maybe they use cheat software saw winner get hit with his card??

It’s always frustrating to have a ‘bully’ at the table. They’re the ones with plenty of chips who will bet on virtually anything because they can. They will often bully you out of the hand simply by betting big. You can’t afford to call because they just might not be bluffing and you don’t want to risk losing. I generally leave these tables quickly and find one that’s more attuned to playing decent poker

actually i like these kind of players, yes you have to fold a lot of hands, but when you do pick up something you like you often win a very great pot.

I good Bully is as important as someone @ a blackjack table who won’t continually take the dealer’s bust card. Earning the right to use your chips, is part of poker… I guess Ozedavid cannot deal with “risk” correctly.

I get upset when only 2 of us at a Freeroll table when it starts and the others dont show up for almost 10 minutes. Those not showing should be penalized the same as Big Blind each hand. That should make them come to the table.
Thank you.

Folding to a check or under the gun is discourteous to the other players…