All-in Closing Action Problem

I have pointed out a similar issue before (but I think it was the inverse problem, raising when the action should have been closed because an all-in that is smaller than a whole bet doesn’t re-open the action).

In this case, an all-in closes the action even though the action should still have been open. I have AA and raise to 140. “hpmarc” re-raises to 310. “carriep” goes all-in for 460, but when the action comes back to me, my only option is to call (not re-raise). Shouldn’t I be able to re-raise “hpmarc”? I believe that his bet opened the action, and the all-in should not affect that; I should be able to re-raise (in this case I would have gone all-in).

If I am wrong, can someone please explain why, and if not, I would like my buy-in for that tournament back because I would have gone all-in, and while “hpmarc” seems like a really bad player who would have probably have called and gotten lucky (as he did), the correct decision for him (after I went all-in preflop) would probably be to fold, which would have kept me from being eliminated.

I have also had this problem…
Why isn’t any “all in” treated like any other raise, and allow it to be re-raised. That would solve this problem, and I do think it is the correct way for the house to treat it. Please if the staff could chime in on this issue plz, we would like the explanation. I agree with Dirk, and have gotten into a bad situation due to the fact I couldn’t re-raise to a higher amount.

I let check the hand, not think this is right.

Just to be clear, I am not saying that all-ins should re-open the action. This all-in was not big enough to re-open the betting, but the betting action had already been re-opened by “hpmarc”, so I should have had the opportunity to re-raise. I believe that is the standard rule in poker. In this case, my only choices were “call” or “fold”.

I know there are bet rules, i’m not very familiar with them, but the staff will check them out and adjust if needed.

Thanks for reporting!

Hey!!! What bout we leave all this and see who is naturally smart one? Its like a jungle - you are a leader or not.

And i hate limited play of games on MTTs, they put me limit 20 games per month but it’s ■■■■■■■■, in european time not much player online and not much are registred on tourney, so, not much points for leaderboard, why cant i play 2 or 3 tables at same time ? why they don’t count it? in american time zone much more players online and they do more points for leaderboard, why should i accept all this ■■■■ ? Please , cancel it immediately.

Yeah, an allin shouldn’t change anything if you would have otherwise been allowed to reraise.

Sometimes I’m on table I do reraise pot and guess what ? - I have 8 callers!!! All In pre - flop are good as well as bad. Better leave it.

He probably would have called, but there is no way of knowing, and it is still a problem with the site (the betting should have been open). If it had been the WSOP and he had faced a shove and an over-shove from me and if he was a good enough player to be in the WSOP he probably would have folded JJ, and who’s to say that Replay players should not be held to such a high standard? Lol

Yeah Joe, but that’s not the point, is it? The site software should follow the standard rules of the game.

Lets look @ this logically , shall we…
Example 1 - (1st to bet player A) : player A bets 50, player B raises 150, player C raises 500, can player E raise ? answer is YES…
Example 2 - (1st to bet is player A) : player A bets 50, player B raises 150, player C raises 500(but is an All In), can player E raise ? because of the all in, maybee not or NO…

To me, this seems illogical, because a “all in” is a raise and therefore should be able to be re-raised. Lets say the reason player E wanted to raise in ex2 is cause they wanted to force player B off the hand, by re-raising to a much higher amt. Because of the All-In he prolly only gets to call that AI and that amount is not enuff to get anyone to fold…

I have deff been in situations where someone “inbetween” me and the person I need to raise off the hand goes all in, and therefore I can’t push… Can the staff please explain , very specifically , why this occurs and what “rule” applies to this…
just happened again, now altho the player I wanted to try and push out with an All-In did not benefit from the turn card…yet after another all in… my bet was frozen @ just a call, even tho I had more chips to go all in with. Before the turn card, After player on right went all in, my only action was Call. In that situation shouldn’t I be able to raise all in over top to attempt to push the remaining player to my left to fold ? ( pretty sure live I can )

When one all in prevents another all in, then there is something wrong in pokersville.

Joe, I believe the issue in the particular case is due to the fact that the all in bet of the third player is less than the raise of the previous player. (150 vs 170). It therefore, at least under the house rules, doesn’t constitute a full legal raise and does not allow a player who has already acted to reraise. If he had pushed in with 480 or more, you would have had the option to raise. I’m not arguing one way or the other whether it should be this way or not, but I believe that is why this happened.

You are correct that the all-in was not a full raise. In that sense, if it were the only raise then the action would be closed, but because the other player “hpmarc” had already raised to 310 from my 140, the action should still be open to me regardless of the all-in.

Rare case too be aware of…

Just a reminder in some of these tourneys such as the Bankroll Builder for instance, the rule of play is Mixed Limit not NO LIMIT. JoeDirk didn’t state whether it was a ML or NL game.
I know for Texas Hold ‘em games at casinos, in a round of betting, say before the flop the Big Blind has the option to CHECK, or BET after everyone has had their turn in a round of ‘PLAY’ and has chosen to either FOLD or CALL (Pay the BIG BLIND).
So… if the BIG BLIND BETS the next person can FOLD CALL or RAISE, if they CALL then the next person RE RAISES then the person after them RE RAISES but the amount of the RE RAISE is less than ½ of the BIG BLIND (chip count) the betting does not continue only a CALL or a FOLD is permitted, UNLESS the person following the ½ BIG Blind RE RAISER has not yet had their turn around the table to either FOLD CALL or RE RAISE. Then of course betting is allowed to continue around until everyone has exercised their options. Of course the amount BET OVER the amount of the person ALL IN would go into a side pot or side pots as the case maybe.
So… if the person going ALL IN has less than ½ of the amount of the BIG BLIND(chip count) and
a) is the last person to take their turn in the round, then BETTING and RAISING STOPS and the options are limited to either CALL or FOLD until all players have had their turn in order around the table. The next card is drawn or dealt face up on the table and normal play resumes clockwise around the table until the options are exhausted.
b) Check, Fold, Bet, Raise, re-Raise, push ALL IN or …

Hope this example of a betting round illustrates this obscure POKER RULE and how it applies in an extremely rare case.
Rules may vary from one casino to another however, I have encountered this one only a few times.

I have noticed that most of the all-ins are from beginners. They do it on hands I would not even raise 1 level such as 66. I have seen someone go all in with k7 unsuited. Sometimes all fold. but if anyone has anything playable, they knock the all-in out of the tourney. I have called them a couple times with a decent holding and, out they go. They might eventually learn as we all did.

Ace, yeah I did think about that rule, and no I’m not talking about ML or FL, but even if raised in ML… I should be able to reraise…

What ur saying is any raise thats not a valid raise, cannot be re-raised… while I have played in Vegas live, is this also a WSOP rule? cause I never remember it happening this way.

first i did’nt got it too, but now i understand how this works:

first thing you need to know is that it isn’t like you can’t or can raise the all in. it differs at the situation. it is about the size of the all in.

situation 1: A bets 20, B raises 50 C goes all in for 100. now you are able to raise again like the all in was a raise, this because the person that was going all-in raised an amount a normal raiser should have done too, because A betted 20 and B raised to 50, it means that if C would have raised instead of going all in he should have raised at least to 80 or more, he did also in his all-in. this means it counts as a raise,

situation 2: A bets 50, B raises to 150, C goes all-in for 200. this time it’s different, the all in raise is lower then the minimum he should have raised if he did’nt go all in because the min here is 250, not 200. because of this it works as a closing action like a call would do, because it works like a call, A is still able to raise because B has done so, B however can only call/fold now because of this all in.
however in limit poker the opening/closing action difference is half instead of full, so because the difference of A and B is 100, normally a raise should be 100 or more, but with all-in in limit, 50 or more make it count as a raise and less then that as a closing raise.

hope this helps.

however there is only one thing i also don’t know: is the min raise after a closing all-in the difference amount of the all-in, the raiser/better before him or those 2 amounts counted together?
i expect it is the amount of the raiser before him, but i am not sure about it either

I do believe that this is a specific rule that not all sites/tournaments adhere to. I have seen it played with and without this restriction. Also another rule that seems to varry is… The min raise is the amt of the BigBlind, or … The min raise is x2 the previous bet…

I am simply asking how says the law of the land… WSOP Rules, in this reguard.