Qh Ks UTG
i didn’t put this hand in the strategy section because i don’t think there was any. too many questionable decisions to analyze (mine included). the hand does demonstrate a situation that pertains to my question.
KQo is weak, OOP, but i had just folded a bunch of hands, and had to leave soon, so i opened with 4xBB.
afterward, every time i called a raise, it was almost like the pot odds demanded it, even tho i didn’t think i had the best hand. (hoping one of the premium hands out there wasn’t QQ).
how much credence do you give pot odds in relationship to your confidence in your hand, or the way the table is betting? are there any two cards you wouldn’t play, getting 12:1, in the blinds?
what does it mean when someone says “i got the pot odds to make the call”?
i haven’t played many ring games. does this happen a lot?
Qh Ks UTG
In a ring game, probably not. In a tournament, maybe. It depends on the situation.
You will hear this a lot, often stated as “priced in.” It means the pot is offering better odds than your chance of winning.
Let’s say there’s 1000 in the pot and it costs you 100 to enter that pot. You are risking 100 to win 1000, so are getting 10-1. As an example, let’s say you will win the pot 1 time in 5, which is 20%. If you are in that position 5 times, you will lose 4 of them, and lose 4 x 100 or 400. But you will, on average, win once out of 5 and take down the 1000 pot. Subtracting the 400 loss from the 1000 win leaves 600, so you make an average of 120 each time. You basically make a profit, even when you lose the hand!
When you’re getting the “right price” to call, you should call, mostly. The caveat being, how likely is it that you’re going to be able to realize your equity. In this situation when you open and everyone calls to the BB who then shoves and reopens the betting you have to think about the 6 players behind you and what they’re likely to do if you call the all in by the BB. I really think you should just fold here, especially with this table dynamic and at these stakes we all know players who are flatting big hands like AA KK waiting for someone to raise so they can back raise shove. So yeah, call when you’re getting the right price but keep in context what the players around you are likely to do and stack sizes.
Couple of things on the hand. You said it, KQo is garbage utg in a FR 2 blind game so fold pre. This is especially true in a game where everyone’s calling every thing. After getting called by 5 players and the BB shoving for 1172 you can go 3 ways. I would opt in the order of folding > raising > calling. Calling is the most -EV choice. The problem you have with calling is that like you said you’re getting a good price, well every player behind just gets a better price than the one before because the pot gets bigger and bigger. Thus the cascade of callers begins. BB opened the betting back up so you could 4! with the intentions of folding to most shoves but that doesn’t seem great either. Definitely fold to the 4! shove, you’re only in for 1172.
Now, after you call, there is a total of 62K in the all the pots, main plus two side pots. You have 3700 effective with three remaining players who still have chips. You have flopped top pair on a wet board with multiple draws. You bet 700, I think you should just shove your 3700, if you get called and win vs the last three players you can win a 14.8K side pot to break even without winning any of the 62K that’s in there now. They’re all getting a pretty good price to call with all kinds of crap that you have beat. Flush draws, straight draws, worse K’s, middling pairs like QQ JJ.
Hope this helps…
What the hell was this o_O. My head just exploded, giving me flash backs of all bad beats I’ve encountered on this site, against players who just don’t give a single @“#“#, and who don’t have any, just any, skills.
Call, call, call, call, call, call, call, raise, call call call call, shove, call, call call. The fold button was disabled I guess ? Or nah, everyone is slow-playing AA -> “No-limit Aces”
I’m almost crying.
P.S. Anyway, nice outcome waidus!
Way too professional lol ! They’ll call you with 2To in this spot, I mean, why not ? Maybe I’ll hit my runner runner T on the turn and river, right?
using the example from the hand, i would figure the 600 or so, chips that it took to cover the first call, with the pot at around 4K, to get just shy of 6.75:1 pot odds. then i determine the winning percentage of the hand i’m holding. the chart i am using says 14.4, for KQo, on a ten seat table, so close to winning 1 out of 6.75 hands. So…5.75 losses equal 3,468, with one win winning 4000, for a profit of 532, or 78.8 per hand. did i do that right
do i adjust the winning odds to reflect the number of players left in the hand? 7 seats would bring the winning percentage closer to 20%.
i have to agree, especially concerning the last raise, and being lucky i wasn’t playing more experenced players.
calling the first shove seemed like more of a slam dunk than it really was. it only cost me 600 or so, chips, and at the time, i thought it would just get called around the table, like the opening raise was. it was the second shove that i almost instafolded on. it surprised me, but something didn’t feel right. i guess you could slow play a premium hand, and then change your mind in the middle of the hand, but at the time, it felt like he wanted to blow people off their hand.
as for the useless raise, post flop, and wimping out the turn and river, that’s embarrassing. i should have played it exactly as you suggested.
i feel your pain, brother.