Why online poker isnt rigged?


#1

the main reason why online poker isnt rigged in general is that.if online poker was rigged then live poker is also > rigged.how? a little experience will show you the identity between live and online poker:

you have some time and patience take a deck of cards shuffle and deal to 9 imaginary players for example and deal the flop turn and river and compare the hands at showdown and you will be surprised how much AA KK and all the kind of premium and decent hand takes the second best hand position.and a hand like 9 3 off suit flops tripes or even quads . one card hit 4 running cards to a flush or a straight you will see also super action flops like paired and coordinated boards
you must have the patience the deal a big number of hands to discover that poker > riggness resids in its random character
in about 10 pockets kings i lost 7 without even against an ace just against under cards bad beat after bad beat …
if pocket AA wins 80 percent of the time heads up it doesnt mean that the person who had been dealt AA gonna win with them 80 percent of the time.
one more thing: AA against multiple opponent lose their equity and down to be just top pair
any two pair any set any… could beat them

All this talk about rigged online poker woudnt be so frequent if the players choose to play postflop poker
poker for me is postflop :CBET -check raise - floating - bluffing…
postflop is what makes the game beautiful
all in preflop kills the game. you cannot even 3 bet preflop without having 4 or 5 callers at least if you are lucky otherwise THEY ARE ALL IN
when i recntly startded to understand this truth. i can make more bluffs and get away with free chips using some postflop skills.and before i was thinking that i could never bluff in play money poker
still a FISH but am learning day by day
my only poker quote is IF YOU GO ALL IN PREFLOP 10 PERCENT OF THE TIME
YOU AVOIDE BAD BEATS 90 PERCENT OF THE TIME.

excuse my poor english.


#2

Nice, Well said. Sore losers quoting “Rigged” is irritating. AA or KK is only a pair folks


#3

I certainly agree with regards to pocket AA or KK. I think they can be grossly overvalued preflop. (Then again I feel that way about any hole cards preflop). While we all get bad beats, I’ve learned to just tip my hat and salute the person that beat me. All cards play… even the river ones, which can get quite a few people riled up. But hey, that’s just the nature of the game and, personally, if I get beat on the river, I just consider it a lesson to myself… bet smarter in future circumstances.


#4

Anyone that tells you AA and KK can be grossly overvalued preflop is an idiot. Yes it loses it’s equity vs multiple opponents, and no that’s not a valid reason not to bet big with the hand.
If you get AA or KK all in preflop, there is NOTHING you did wrong with getting it in (except maybe going all in with KK with a really huge nit, but that’s an exception), the way you went all in (3bet vs insta all in, last one is kinda bad) might not be the most profitable, but going all in with AA and KK and getting called means you should win, i know you get sucked out on every once in a while and i know this site is not rigged. But if i play AA or KK well and get sucked out on i will never consider it a lesson, because there is no lesson, they sucked out on me… Going all in with AA and KK preflop is what you want to have happen with those hands, don’t tell yourself otherwise.


#5

The point I was making was about going all-in with those cards. Nobody suggested ‘betting big’ wasn’t the prudent move to make. But to put all your chips in preflop? I wouldn’t recommend.

Thanks for the idiot barb.


#6

I think LeMow has a very good point though. If the action is open raise you get 3 bet, you 4 bet you get a shove or two or even 3 you should be happy to call, there’s no way I lay down my KK+ in that situation because I’ll be good EV wise.

Now if you open shoved that’s generally speaking a bad play but if you’ve noticed that on RP the calling range is so distorted towards marginal hands then that’s actually valid. Again pure hand value makes no sense in poker. Say as LeMow pointed out that the guy shoving is a NIT, then your KK seems weak and you should only go with AA and not be surprised if he shows AA as well.

Pure hand value makes no sense either pre or post flop. You cannot say: “I’ve KK+ pre let’s just do that or do this” it should be, “I’ve KK pre, I’m in position (our out of position) there are x possible callers, the callers are passive/agressive, fishes/competent players, TAG/LAG/NIT etc” and I didn’t factor in history and last 10/20 hands image so it’s much more complex than just KK+.

And the same logic goes on post flop. Am I in position, who am I against, what’s my made hand like (bluff, SDV, value) against him/them, what’s my equity, what’s his folding equity, how can I improve next street, what card(s) screw me on the next street, etc.


#7

I think you touched on the main point that’s been pretty much my abiding rule since playing here… guaging what the table is doing.

Adapting and assessing what the other 8 (or 5) players around the table throws any “should do’s” right out the window, at least from what I can see. It all depends on how tight or loosey-goosey the other players are playing. We can talk percentages and odds-of-winning-combinations and, of course, in the long run betting such-and-such with so-and-so a hand will play out in your favor. But it can be a total crapshoot at times. It really all depends on the table.

And a little off-topic but those players who immediately cry ‘bingo’ every time their KK or AA get busted by, say, paired J-3, have nobody to blame but themselves for it, in my opinion. Trust me, I’ve sensed the indignation and outrage from players who have fallen to that… I’m sure you’ve seen it multiple times as well. The question I ask myself is “Why do these players do it to themselves?” Why set yourself up for that kind of Hellmuth-style meltdown?


#8

These players don’t understand odds and in general statistics that’s what I’d answer. Also they probably don’t look at their win rate per hand type (which btw is hard to do on RP but I think their working on it). AA should be your best performer overall, meaning the 20% of the times or more likely 15% of the times you get sucked out are already factored in EV wise. Yeah you’ll get “bingoed” by J3o from time to time but it doesn’t matter since you’re supposed to win big in the long run.

Hellmuth is in my opinion not such a great player. He made his bread and butter in tourneys on passive fishes early in the history of televised poker and won titles in NLHE but over the past ten years he never adapted his game nor did he try other variants. Plus he’s a notoriously poor high stakes cash game player. So I’m not surprised he has anger management issues and can’t comprehend bad beats and sucking it up. His “bad boy” image is what gave him contracts and fame not his poker skills.

I can understand the feeling of being robed when your AA is busted by a marginal hand but I always think that I made the right play and that next time I’ll cash in big time so usually I move on fairly easily. The hard part paradoxically is when you make a tough decision that happened to be right and you get sucked out :smile:


#9

That’s exactly my opinion about this issue, but the following kind of people annoy the living **** out of me:

Before anyone tries to roast me on misplays or anything, no, this assumes i manage to get it all in preflop with a fish, so no bull about postflop play or anything, we all know how often you get sucked out on when you 4bet preflop only to get shoved on by some idiot holding AJ/KQ or some dumb hand like that or someone just calling your 4bet all in with - for sake of argument - the J3 hand that is used here

How am i to blame for getting my pocket cowboys / aces cracked by an idiot that shouldn’t be calling with his garbage hand? I probably know odds better than you do, and while i understand that (big) pocket pairs can be cracked, i do cry “bingo” when people win with trash, i do cry “■■■■■■■ clowns” when i get rivered for the 1289345th time, i do hate it when people play like idiots and still manage to win my chips because of lucky suckouts.

I get mad when my aces get cracked by kings preflop all in, i also get mad when my aces get cracked by some weird hand like j3, difference being that i can see why the guy with kings went all in, which is why i will say “nh” to the lad that showed kings, and why i will insult people that shove with j3. Yes i know that is immature, yes i know it will only end up hurting my own profits but for fucks sake how does anyone stay calm in that situation. To be honest the worst thing in poker is playing a hand close to perfection and still losing to some clown that has 0 idea what he’s doing.

I know i will win in the long run, but that doesn’t mean i won’t get mad when i get bingo’d into oblivion.
The luck factor is what makes poker an interesting game, while it’s also what makes poker a frustrating game to play.


#10

I totally agree and I’m not saying I cope with suck outs every time. It really depends on the history of your session as well, at times it feels like a nightmare where no matter what you do you end up loosing. At some point you happen to finally stumble upon a premium and manage to go all in pre against a garbage hand. If you get cracked at this particular moment chances are you’re gonna be mad about it.

But that’s also the beauty of the game. Emotional high and lows are addictive and I guess a part of growing up as a poker player is learning to just swallow it and move on. That’s why I believe players like Ivey, Antonius etc are so impressive and look so inhumane, they seem to not care (I think they do care… a lot) whether they loose a big pot or win a big pot.


#11

I admire people that handle coolers with such ease, but i can’t get myself to stay calm when i get destroyed by sheer luck.


#12

very well said !!!


#13

Online poker isn’t “rigged” yet the computer algorithimes do pick a winner well in advance and tend
to sway the outcome to their advantage. There are variables obviously, but it is not natural selection
as it would be playing live poker. I have never seen 4 of a kind so much in my life as to when i play online
poker. They can try to imitate real life but as with all digital experiences it’s not the same.


#14

I dunno if Online Poker is rigged or not but I do believe a lot of these sites try their hardest to make us, the player, believe it is rigged for eg, 3 max pocket kings , raise 3X, one caller 3,3,Q on the flop. Im pretty confident and fire the C Bet, also 3x. Called . 3 on the turn , still confident , so fire a bet , click enter and just amazed as my clock continues to run down despite my having made an action. Clocks up, auto folded ,I of course lose the pot. I instantly type my dismay into the the chat box. Super long delay before next hand is dealt , I get dealt an eight, followed by another massive delay and eventually a ten. Den the flop comes 10 10 10 . I flop quads … An apologetic correction of sorts on behalf of the random generator??? I think so.


#15

Not only is your English bad, but your logic. BS! Online poker is run by algorithms that in some cases is flawed. Maybe, maybe not on this site. A real, random deal, if it is done legally, will be different. That said, have I seen “real” live poker hands dealt by unscrupulous dealers, YES.

Does replaypoker’s algorithm bury a card before the turns? maybe a question that needs to be asked.


#16

We did ask once, then they added “burn” the cards.

What make looks like “rigged” , the pleyers themself. They call near evrithing… 4-5 pp still in after river. No suprise if more bad beats…
Players shoud only blame themselfs for that.
Everyone want action, now. I suggest play more table and learn to fold more…
ATB


#17

Hold 'em or Texas Holdem was established in the early 1900’s.
The true purpose of the game was to offer 4 betting opportunities, the hole or hold cards, the flop, the turn and the river.
These betting opportunities were intended to make the game more of a thinking game (more strategy).
There are 7 cards in which to make a winning hand, pocket aces certainly don’t mean you’ll win the hand.
So for the biggest bang for your bet, play all 7 cards…
The point is, why would online poker be rigged and there will always be people who feel the need to go all in, even with a pocket pair of dueces.


#18

I don’t understand the premise of the thread.
Does anyone know or has tested enough hands in all the online sites, to say with statistical significance that
none of them is rigged?

There are a lot of reasons for a site to be rigged, but the problem is it is difficult to say with certainty.
I am pretty sure that all sites want to favor or give some advantage to players who put more money on their site.
In general they would want to favor hands that would give them more profit, even if they don’t do it in
favor of one player or another.
Whether they do it is a matter of debate, unless there are enough data to support one case or another.

Also burning cards or not makes no sense on online poker, if the deal is truly random.
There is no physical deck shuffled and seeing this feature incorporated some way into play wouldn’t
make me less suspicious.


#19

The universe uses online poker to deal out karmic retribution. If you kicked dogs or hated kittens in a previous life, you can expect to get sucked out on a lot… but this is a relatively painless way to repay your karmic debt.

The next time you suffer a bad beat, rejoice in the certain knowledge that you are one step closer to enlightenment. Clap with one hand and enjoy your journey to nirvana.


#20

Has anyone tested enough hands on any of the online sites, to say with statistical significance that any of them are rigged?

Hint: No

Burden of proof is on the accuser