The fairness debate


#2018

IT was not intended to be sarcastic it was stated as one mans opinion and i did not aqueous them of cheating unintentional things happen my last word on this


#2019

How likely do you think that someone else will have a pocket pair in a given hand when you also have a pocket pair? It’s probably way more common than you think - in the realm of 40%, when 9-handed. If you really think it happens more often to you than that, keep notes on all the times you’re dealt a pocket pair, and show us the stats you collect.


#2020

plenty of times I have taken a deck of cards and dealt 9 handed.
1 there was hardly any pocket pairs.
2. maybe couple times there were two pocket pairs.
3. I have provided screenshots/ hand links when it has happen.
its just not pocket pairs that are the issue. there is a lot of other things that I question how random it really is.

July 18th 2018 is when I started posting screenshots of multiple hands with multiple pocket pairs. probably some hand links too

again this is my last post on this forum. want to continue this topic, send me a friends request. I shouldn’t be posting here due to a promise I made to myself.


#2021

You cannot collect accurate stats with a PC on a domestic OS, so the science of the stats. is not a real question.
What comes into play is instinct, or try to develop an instinct to RPP eclusively.
What messes and cheapens the nature of poker where stats with all the bells n whistle, harvard degrees in the science of probability, are the bingo players after the 20 minute unlimited buy in.
Luck wins…I have folded winning hands because I know one player with an accumulated stack is going to blow away the smaller stacks on the pre-flop, until a real poker player blows them away. The spirit game suffers because because of what could have been, a fun game to pass the time.
Maybe I ought to go where bingo players are not welcome, but at what cost ?

Just because “chronic bingo player A” is pocket AK or AA, there is no reason to get excited and wet ya keyboard !


#2022

Where are the total card counts published so we can verify the shuffle algorithm. For example, out of 3 million cards dealt there should be the same number of 2’s 3’s A’s etc… Since you don’t use Fischer yates algorithm, and instead use random number generator, the game is bunk.


#2023

First off, I realise that this is just a computer game, with enhanced hands, to induce betting and promote the purchase of “chips”. However, having been playing here for a while, despite a fair degree of success, I’ve become aware and far too familiar with a scenario that seems to be repeating too often not to mention. I’m sure I’m not the only one here either, judging from numerous comments from a variety of other players.

I’m talking about the nonsensical, and statistical anomaly that seems to occur far too often, to be written off as, “oh, it’s poker and it can happen”. An elephant parachuting from the sky wearing a purple tutu, metallic silver nail polish, and playing the Star Spangled Banner, “can happen” but I think we’d all agree that the likelihood is so far fetched, as to be considered ridiculous.

I’ve saved all of the bad beats so far, but having lost 20% of my stack recently following hours of play, either I have suddenly become a terrible player, or statistically, I’m getting shafted. Winning small pots with strong hands but consistently and repeatedly losing big hands with very strong hands, ( I play real life poker, I know the odds and I know the difference) despite altering tactics, ( slow playing, building pots, early all-ins, you know the drill) it’s come to the point where it’s honestly no longer “fun”. Rather, it’s becoming a bore where the 1-2% outer is becoming so prevalent, it really is erring on the side of a chore.

I enjoy playing here and have the choice not to continue to do so. If you’re looking for feedback, I’d implore you to alter the algorithm to make the hands more “realistic”. I know I’m not the only one, by any stretch of the imagination, who knows what they’re doing, but finds themselves continually frustrated by bad beats and chancers consistently hitting the 1-2% outers so regularly that bingo play seems to be the only rewarding tactic. “Don’t take it seriously and hope for the 2% outer” if that is the tactic to be constantly favoured by the algorithm, I doubt I’m the only one to say enough is enough. Change it, or you will lose another fan who has become too frustrated by the number of bad beats that the site is no longer fun, but more a stressful way to get beaten by a pre-determined computer programme, rather than the skill of a real life opponent.


#2024

Is this actually true? Is it not actually random? Or are you just speculating?


#2025

People complain about the RNG all the time. ALL THE TIME.

RPP could put it all to rest by publishing the following two things:

  1. The source code to their shuffling algorithm.
  2. The statistical out put of every hand, eg for those hands that win in a showdown, what the winning hand was. And a comparison to the expected frequency of that hand hitting in a mathematically fair deck.

#2026

Lucian, he’s speculating like everyone else that adds to this insulting thread. He’s alive, just like you are, just like puggy is, just like I am. None of us are robots. Robots aren’t that unpredictable or this suspicious. Only humans do that.
The RNG that is used doesn’t influence what we cards get or how we play them. Even if it’s imperfect, it is BLIND in its imperfection treating every one of us the same. No player is favored or disfavored. The rain wets us all in the storms. Those who learn to use an umbrella (caution, in the case of poker players) stay dryer than those who don’t.
No one can satisfy those who decide the world–or some small part of it–is out to get them. Every contrary fact or observation is dismissed as being further “proof” of how good those rascals were setting us all up.
If you’re having a good time that costs you zero, there is NOTHING to complain about. Enjoy your life. Enjoy your games. Enjoy your friends. Don’t fall into the trap of blaming others for the horse manure that visits every living being’s life. Even dogs and cats have “bad days.”


#2027

I’m not saying that the RGN on RPP is unfair, I don’t have an opinion on that point, but I do disagree with you on this point that if it is unfair, it’s evenly unfair to all players.

Even if it’s unfair in an unabiased way, unfairness will tend to favor poorer players who play hands that they shouldn’t. If the RNG is rigged so that improbable outs hit more often than not, then this would penalize “good folds” while rewarding “bad calls”. This would tend to favor poor play over good play, even while still remaining blind to who is playing poor and who is playing good.


#2028

Like this one? He had a bad hair day! :joy:

Bad%20Hair%20Day


#2029

I don’t know if they have a set algorithm or not. And I also get some very hard to believe beats and some days I get beat by similar hands all day long. I also know that the human mind will remember negatives a lot more easily than positive’s…
I do believe Mr. Replay when he says he won’t allow an unfair or action influenced dealing. Here is a quote from him…
“At Replay, we absolutely 100% do NOT manipulate the cards in any way, shape of form. We never have and never will. Fairness has always been, and will always remain, our No.1 priority”… It is the last entry in a post titled “Definitely not rigged”
I do think that the card algorithm should be looked into on a regular basis to see if any bugs, errors, hacks, virus, loops, hardware or software flaws, or operational weaknesses in process or technical countermeasures. And they probably do this, maybe they can post results for the skeptics after they do a inspection…


#2030

I understand your frustration, but I’d also be willing to bet you’re underestimating the number of your opponents’ outs on any given hand, and overestimating the frequency you get beaten when you truly do have 98%+ equity. Can you provide a recent example where you faced a suck-out of that magnitude? Had you bet to deny your opponent’s equity, got called, and still lost, or had you let them see that card for free and catch their long-shot miracle? Were you heads up, or could there have been other hands out there drawing to other outs that you didn’t see?

A big part of poker (not to mention life in general) is being able to accept bad beats. For any given person to contract a one-in-a-million fatal disease is incredibly rare - but, on average, about 7000 people in the world will get that diagnosis. Add in that there are hundreds or thousands of such “rare” diseases, it’ll become likely that you or someone you know is afflicted with an incredibly rare disease.

Similarly, when you play hundreds or thousands of hands in a session, you’ll see some things that happen very rarely. That’s not proof the RNG is rigged. Quite the contrary - if they never happened, it would be a much bigger indictment of the RNG.

As long as you are playing hands correctly, building a pot while you’re ahead and minimizing pot growth when you’re behind, you’ve done everything you can control. Everything else is just variance, and will even out in the long run.


#2031

I think you have your answer. :slight_smile:


#2032

Try this thread. Very little disagreeable feedback there.
http://forums.replaypoker.com/t/why-i-like-replaypoker


#2033

I have decided that the site is “fair” because it’s the same for everyone, even if it seems a little goofy sometimes.

Obviously, there will be no need for further discussion. Thanks to everyone who took part!


#2034

I’ve come to the same conclusion SPG.
However I want everyone to continue to post bad beats and crazy hands for their entertainment value.


#2035

Looks like there was a fire sale on straight flush draws recently, particularly hearts & Royals:

Today’s fun…
A345 of hearts
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468215687
New table, 90 minutes later… AKJT of hearts
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468235365
Same table, 8 minutes later… AKQJ of clubs.
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468236792

A few from last week when I noticed it starting to happen:
AQJT of hearts
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/465812641
KQT of hearts on the board, Hero has Jack of hearts, Villain has Ace of hearts.
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/466043706
Same table as previous, 75 minutes later… QJT clubs… and an offsuit King with a special appearance by double pocket Aces making straights!
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/466064549
Same table as previous, 2hrs later… board flushes out with AKQ of hearts face up. Winner has the Jack & 5, I had the 9.
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/466100984

And of course, no addition to this “insulting” thread would be complete without some of our old favorites…
A FH board from yesterday:
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/467962302
From last week, 2-pair boards on back to back hands…
KK55
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/466047052
KTKT
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/466047367
And let’s not forget to add some runner-runner trips…
69QQQ
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/466050294
TKAAA
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/466139868

But hey, it’s just variance, right? :roll_eyes:


#2036

Thanks for your comment. I will correct you however, if I may. It is “an” answer but it is not “the” answer. It is difficult to properly engage through the internet rather than have an informed discussion and be able to answer or exchange viewpoints without it resorting to insults, misunderstandings or “he said, she said”, as well as the inevitable questioning of ability or accusations of bad sportsmanship. This is a computer game, not real poker, so there can be no question that the hands are not 100% realistic. My issue is that the algorithm currently used in the programme is ruining the enjoyment of an otherwise excellent site, and could and should be improved - hence the feedback. Judging from numerous comments, I too am not the only one by any means, who is constantly frustrated by hitting a statistically rare hand, played correctly to maximise returns from the table, only to lose to an even rarer hand, that “happens” to have flopped on exactly the same round. It is that scenario to which I am specifically referring, that causes the fun of the site to diminish and become a frustrating bore. I know poker, I know odds, I know that sometimes chance beats skill and that statistically any had can flop at any time. This however, is not real life poker, it is a computer algorithm that has been programmed to deliberately produce such results on a FAR more regular basis than is ever seen. My point, is that this should be reduced because it’s reducing the enjoyment of the site. The only way this site can be improved is by suggestions and feedback from it’s users. Hence, my post. I hope that’s cleared up for you now.


#2037

Moar…
From the latest session (early Feb 5th), 61 total hands in about 1hr10min.
This actually isn’t an exhaustive list because it got to the point where I just wanted to play my hand instead of switching screens and saving the hand number I just copied. Crazy nonsense was happening that frequently.

Starting with some relatively boring back to back hands with 3 to Royals:
AKQ diamonds.
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468552598
KJT clubs.
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468552777

A little two gap straight flush draw, not a huge deal by itself, but with everything else happening in a 61 hand session, hmmm…
68T of spades.
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468556222

AKT9 of diamonds
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468559338

Now for the coup de grâce… I call this a multi-way special…

4568T of spades, so a flush on the board with the potential for multiple hands that could straight flush.
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468555503

Here’s one last interesting hand to close it out…
Board becomes a straight… 89TJQ… and not one, but two players are holding KQ to make the King high straight. Could have been better… if they both had AK…
https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/468555106