The math on your last two calls preflop are confusing to me because it was multiway, but I believe you did not have the implied odds to call the first raise or the second raise because you are only going to flop a set 12% of the time, and you are not going to win enough extra when you do flop one to make it worth all the times you miss. As played, I am super confused by what everybody else is doing. I honestly have no real analysis because none of it makes any sense to me, except that it is extremely easy to beat low stakes by just waiting for big hands and getting all in because a range like JJ+ would clearly be way ahead of opponents’ all-in ranges. You would still get a lot of action because people refuse to fold preflop.
The rationale you gave for not raising preflop (the limper is a station) is exactly the reason you need to raise. 99 is one of the strongest starting hands, and if he is going to call with a wide range, then you are going to be extremely profitable and more easily double up. Limping behind with smaller pairs can be ok if you aren’t getting enough folds, but 99 is too strong.
As played, I don’t think betting 1 bb is the right choice in any situation. You get no value when you are ahead, don’t get any folds to deny equity, and have no information about whether your hand is good. You did well to bet and get value on the turn and river. It’s good that you recognized that your hand was almost certainly best and you weren’t afraid of a ten.
I want to focus on how you played, rather than your opponents, but this hand is complicated by perceived skill level at this table. Against a strong opponent, this is a reluctant river call (to catch missed flushes and straights that turned into bluffs), but a strong player doesn’t have T2o in their range and doesn’t min-raise the turn after hitting trips. They also don’t fire pot with trips, no kicker, on this river unless they think you are calling too much. Since this particular opponent can have any Tx in their range, I like a jam on this river. It looks like you have a straight based on how you lead the flop and bet the turn, so it doesn’t make sense for them to bet so big on the river with less than a boat, but clearly they aren’t thinking that way.
To start from the beginning. Folding 67s for this price would be criminal. I like a raise to try to take the pot down preflop, but since everybody seems to be a calling station, I think calling to see a flop is fine. On the flop, I like a check because the original raiser is likely to continuation bet. If the original raiser or the player with T2 bet this flop, then you can check raise to increase the size of the pot and potentially get action from flush draws, top pair, and overpairs. I don’t think J7 or QJ is likely because they should be raising on such a wet board.
The turn is a really bad card for you because the board pairs. I have no idea what ranges your opponents could be on, but T8/T9/88/99 can be part of it. Your opponent really shouldn’t be raising with less than a boat because it looks like you have something like 67/QJ/J7/TT/99/88/T8/T9. Even if you only have a flush draw, he is giving you a great price to call, so it really has to be a boat. I think you have to call because he can have trips, but at this point I would be pretty sure I was behind.
The river is a brick, and he bets for value again. This river is really confusing because I actually think fold/call/jam are all valid options. Against a moderately competent opponent I reluctantly fold here because they look so strong. They should not be bluffing with a flush draw because they could be drawing dead to all the boats you can have. They could be betting for value with trips, but your line makes it look like you have a straight or maybe a set/2 pair that turned into a full house. So, if they would take this line with trips it makes sense to call, but I would expect to lose most of the time because the only trips they should have (which they should not be betting like this) is AT/KT/QT/JT while T9/T8/88/99 all beat you.
But this particular opponent shows up with T2. That means they can have T2/T3/T5/T6/T7/TJ/TQ/TK/TA, all of which you beat. So, if they would bet trips for value and if they have all possible combos of trips in their range, then you should be jamming because there are way more combos of trips than of full houses. This is an interesting and confusing hand. I don’t like to play low stake because I hate playing against opponents who can be holding any 2 cards. Sure, it is easy to be profitable against them in the long run. But the game just makes so little sense.
All good points and would be good advice if the game being played was poker. It isn’t, its something called “Whack-a-Flop”. In a somewhat normal game, I just fire my stack in from the SB and either steal or am flipping to more than double. Then again, you wouldn’t see anyone limping in as 1st to act with 96o so there’s that.
Did you ever watch Road Runner cartoons? If you did, you’ll remember that the coyote was constantly trying to create overly complicated schemes to catch/kill the Road Runner. Wile E. Coyote, super genius. Needless to say, his complex plans always failed while people like me were sitting there wondering why he didn’t just go out and buy a 12-gague. I see a lot of the same thing here - overly complicated schemes being concocted to get chips that are just as easily won with the simple approach.
My play was terrible poker. It was ugly and absurd and simplistic. Its also effective. The 1bb bet did in fact get a fold from the BB and told me everything about the initial limpers hand I needed to know. That 1BB donk-bet was called by the limper, not raised. That told me he had a little something but didn’t have top pair or better. People are deathly afraid of flush draws and will shove to protect their Top pair+ hands on that board. They also shove their nut flush draws so I know he didn’t have that. So, I found out that he either had a pair under the 10 or some Ax hands, with or without the Ad for a backdoor flush draw. When the 2nd 10 came out, I was almost certain where I was in the hand and that I was best. His call meant he had a pair under top pair and that’s all. The river was perfect to get my stack in and he was always going to call with a full house, which I was ahead of.
I like good poker. When required, I even try to play it. Most of the time I have found it to be totally unnecessary here. When you can play the player, all the finer points of poker are completely useless. I heard someone once say that chips don’t come with a story of how they were won. Sometimes you just need to get out the 12-gague and keep it simple.
The fairness debate
How would you play flopped quads early in a SNG when not in position? Should I have checked the river or bet smaller? Had I got all the value I could have from this hand?
Yeah, Replay RNG has been having a good night of weird hands and setups so far. Shocked no one had QQ in this hand. Have already seen more runner-runner cards to chop pots than I saw all last week online cash.
ADDED: SAME GAME A FEW HANDS LATER - QUAD K’s AGAIN: https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/443194919
Getting quad K’s like they were pairs.
ADDED: SAME GAME A FEW HANDS LATER- FLOP THE NUT STAIGHT WITH AK: https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/443195801
Something funny to mention is that one of the players’ username at the table during this hand was quadsagain
Those are some awesome hands.
Here is my last hand yesterday that I am kicking myself over:
I get dealt pocket aces. I have read the table and know I probably won’t get any hits on an all in and I want maximum value out of those aces.
My opponent throws up a 3X bet preflop. I know he has a history of playing odd ball hands but is a solid player and rarely bluffs and is good for big pots.
I raise preflop and he calls and the deal is 4 8 suited and K.
I know this opponent is not likely looking at the flush so at best he has Ks. So I drive with a big bet to either scare him off fishing for the flush or get him betting the Ks against my aces.
He bites and a 2 comes up on the turn.
Now here is where I make my big mistake.
I read him correctly on the Ks and because he called and did not raise I put him on just a pair fishing for trips or 2 pair.
When the 2 hit I figured he would be unlikely to hold a K2 odd ball hand and there was two flush suits possible if I let him see the river.
I decide I need to scare him off with a big bet and not let him see that river so I go all in and he calls and has the K2 and takes away my stack.
The mistake I made is that he could not see my cards and probably was not thinking I had aces and maybe thought I was playing for that flush or maybe bumping heads on Ks or I had another smaller pair. So he figured he was strong on the flop.
This was a tough call hand for me because the flop gave him a flush hit but I probably should have drove all in on the flop and tried to keep him from seeing any more cards but if he stayed he would still hit the K2 and I lose.
This is what I get for getting greedy and wanting to maximize the pot on aces when I probably would have been better off with a pre-flop all in and try to scare him off even if it meant a skimpy pot.
Don’t kick yourself over hands like this. If a guy wants to raise K2o and then call a limp-raise, this is someone you want to play against as often as you can. Tell him “nh, brilliantly played”, make a note of what you saw and proceed to take whatever chips he has. He lucked into 2-pair in a hand he had no business being in - well good for him. If you’re lucky, that hand will reinforce his bad habits and make beating him all the easier from now on.
Your play worked in this spot, as you doubled up, but your response basically negates my original points:
- That you could have done it more easily by raising preflop. You acknowledge that they call too wide, so bet when you are ahead and get vaue.
- Betting 1bb gets you no value and tells you nothing. Your opponent could easily have a little piece (as you said), overcards, a bad ten, a set, or nothing. Betting half pot on the flop gets you their stack more easily. If a scary card came on the turn, you might not have gotten any more value.
Playing good poker doesn’t mean doing anything fancy, just beating whoever you are up against.
Looks like you had a nice a run. Everybody has them, and I wish they were easier to remember when those bad beats start to hit.
I think you played the first hand well. It’s actually really hard to know what to do when you have such a strong hand. I like to slow down and act weak because you dominate the board, so it’s unlikely anybody else has anything. I like raising the turn because it can get value from draws.
I wonder what everybody else had in the 2nd hand. They must have been pretty strong. I guess a jack, but I don’t think they should be calling with just a jack when it looks like you are so strong, unless you have been bluffing a lot (which I am pretty sure you have not). I don’t like your bet sizing of 1/4 pot on the flop. Out of position I think it’s better to check and let others bet rather than giving them a chance to call without re-opening the betting action, but it worked out this time.
The third hand also worked out perfectly for you. I still like a bigger bet on the flop to get value from a queen or possibly a jack or QJ/QT/JT. Your opponent should never be raising you like they did with less than 2 pair, so that made things easy.
This is really just a bad beat. The only issue I have with your play is that you limped AA. I am glad that you back-raised preflop after your opponent opened, but I do not like that strategy because it makes it look like you have exactly AA and if nobody raises you risk seeing a multi-way flop, which makes it likely your AA will get cracked or you will lose value because the pot will be smaller. I like a normal open raise with AA like any other hand you would open.
As played, it worked out really well for you that he opened and you were able to raise. K2o is a bluff open to steal the pot because it is a trash hand but has the K blocker. He should fold easily after you back-raise. After he does call, I like your bet size because you can get value from a king or a flush draw (and everybody calls too much). He basically has to call, even though his hand is still really precarious, because he hit the king, so you could have a flush draw or QQ (which you should not bet like this). On the turn you can still get value from a king or a flush draw, so I think the shove is fine. You just got unlucky. Your opponent can have AK/KQ/KJ/KT/K9, flush draws, or even TT/JJ/QQ that you beat, and the only hands that beat you are a few combos of 44/88/KK/K8. They should never have called preflop with K2-K7 (or really K8 or K9), so they should have very few 2 pairs.
Thanks- after looking at that one several times the only other way I could have played it was an all in pre-flop and scare him off for a skimpy pot and I know this player and he is known for playing odd ball hands and hitting.
He is a decent player and higher ranked but plays a lot looser than I would and that is what throws me off. I expect him to play tighter based on his rank.
Just one of those hands!
That’s basically my point. However you go about exploiting the flaws in your opponents games is going to be up to the individual. I’m experimenting with a lot of things right now because there are so many odd behaviors that I run across every night. A lot of that is ugly poker.
I wonder how in the world you would come to that assumption. I won’t tell you the ratio of bluffs I have to value but I can tell you its far higher amount than your average player here. I look for spots - play the player especially in position on good runouts for my possible hands. What I don’t think you (and others) are getting is that most of the players here are nice enough to tell you what hand they have. Then its a matter of figuring out what size bets on what boards will fold out those hands, if any. I’ve learned some people won’t fold top pair to any size bet and others will drop 2-pair and even sets to boards where obvious flush draws fill. I use overbets for value and as bluffs regularly here to great effect.
That was an obscene run. Overall though I’m running a lot below average. Its been a long streak of losing more hands I’m ahead with than not. Forget the coinflips, I’m losing more than half of hands when I’m dominating, like AK to A5 in all-in situations. Overpairs to top pair type stuff. I’m still doing well (leading) but I’d be 500-600 points higher in my average on the SnG boards if I was running just average. I don’t claim the RNG is rigged against me but I do think I’ve been running worse than normal for a good length of time.
I like your comments here and my cousin respects your poker knowledge as well. I’m not a math-guy though. I play poker the old fashioned way for the most part - exploiting specific players and the mistakes I see them make repeatedly until they adjust. Most never do. I learned a while ago how to do this against players with nearly unlimited ranges. Instead of trying to figure out their ranges then, I’m figuring out their hand strengths and proceeding from there. Even a guy with my limited skill can play pretty well against people who tell me what their hands are.
Not sharing this hand because it was especially hard to play or because I’m especially proud of my play, but because it was entertaining and it was the one that I broke through 500k with (which I have been looking forward to for a while).
Preflop: You may ask yourself wtf is going on here. How am I calling a raise with such junk? Well I have a read on the raiser. He raised almost every hand preflop. Like probably 90%. Everyone else was calling most hands maybe 75%. My strategy here is the counterintuitive, scorned, loose passive strategy. I try to fold more than the table but not a lot more than the table, so they will think of me as a little tight but not a nit.
Flop: Lowball the flop. Allows me to build the flop on the cheap. I don’t want to bet too much since the board is paired (and probably lots of queens in peoples ranges) and I could potentially be drawing dead. I guess I’m kind of representing a pair being scared of the set.
Turn: Well it’s not a diamond, but it’s a king. I apply a large amount of anti-boat spray.and make another bet.
River: 9 of diamonds. I have my flush. Facing a raiser and a caller I look at the queens and I can almost see how they are talking over coffee in a little house. I look at my king and squint and he looks a little bit like an ace, but not quite. I shove and both people obviously call as they have so little behind.
They both reveal AT. Guess they were hoping to see other people with Qx or Tx and the occasional Kx, Jx or pocket.
You had a two way hit for a straight or flush on the river which is always a nice hand and the flush hit so a likely winner.
Your opponents screwed up as both had the straight on the turn and that was the place for them to push to keep the other players from seeing that last card with that flush possible showing.
Tough hand because of the Qs on the flop could easily turn into a full house. When the 9 hit they probably figured you for just the T and an easy beat with the top straight.
They overlooked the flush possible which is always a mistake on Replay that throws alot of flush hits on the river.
Good hand !
OK I will do the spain-in in poker we start with 52 cards broke into 4 suits 13 cards in each suit
giggle giggle, there was a straight by 1 player and the person with pocket 3’s used the 4 spades on table to make his flush, you can always look at the chat box to see what winning hand is have a good day !
Well, that’s more of an incident report after the crime had already been committed but thanks anyway. What I was getting at was the absurdity of the play at any given time on any given table. Sometimes I don’t know whether to laugh or cry or both. Would like to do more laughing but this type of play makes it hard to even enjoy spending time here. Can’t spend the chips so they have to be for entertainment. Maybe its just me but playing “whack-a-flop” is about as appealing as finding out your proctologist is Captain Hook
This is actually tame compared to last night where you had one guy open shoving 200BB on hands like 5/4o over and over again. 800K at a time chunked off. Since he had over 100 million of them, they were meaningless to him and his play reflected that. There has to be some happy medium somewhere here between the tables of uber-nits all nut-hunting at the SnG tables and the kamikaze chip-chukers in the ring games.
My take was it was 2 bluffs gone wrong