“The #1 example is flushes. In real games chasing flushes is a losing strategy. On here it is very profitable.”
Actually, math is math no matter where you play. If the odds/price are right, it is profitable. Or the implied odds can be right (like if your opponent will pay you off with their stack when you hit). But in general, math is math. If you give your opponents a price to chase, they should chase, if you don’t then they shouldn’t. People seem to think that “chasers” win on Replay, but they really don’t. Plenty of people on Replay chase too much at all stakes, but there are also players profiting off of their incorrect calls all the time. Making +EV plays is what is profitable in poker for real money or play money…
Joe - great to see you back in the saddle again and as usual making great points here. You touched on 2 key concepts but I wanted to expand on them if I could. First is “chasing” - yes, there are people who pay exorbitant prices to see further cards but there are also many cases where the other players on the table are sponsoring that play. Strings of flat-calls bring the direct odds up to the point where all sorts of floats become profitable. The more players in a pot clicking the call button, the more incentive there is to continue with hands that otherwise would have to be dumped.
Second, implied odds are kind of off the charts in most games. This is where I think the play differs from cash poker the most. The fact of the matter is that people pay off. If you make any sort of hand, chances are you will be paid far in excess of what you should be. The more bizarre the hand, the better. When people think an overpair is the nuts 5-ways on a sloppy-wet flop, you get paid. Set mining with small pocket pairs is rarely profitable playing for cash but here it is. Same with unsuited connectors, 1 and 2-gappers and all sorts of other hands that normally don’t get to see flops for cash. Here they have high enough implied odds to become profitable (in the right circumstances).
So, the math is the math on direct odds but the implied odds in most games here make chasing a lot more attractive, no matter how you define it. Not in every game or at every level but overall I think the willingness to pay off is a huge factor in what hands are played or floated.
ADDED: Probably would have been more efficient to say that the players here are generally more inelastic in their calling ranges and have less understanding of relative hand strengths than those playing for cash. This of course cuts both ways but the simple math only goes so far.
Yes, no question. But psychology is psychology. When you are being paid to play, that is given 2500 chips every time you consecutively sign in and can demand 500 for overtime when you bust the psychology changes from the real world
The game itself here is the same as the game anywhere. But how it’s played changes.
have to agree with you here…but slightly different if you chase you dont hit and others do against you 90% of the time…and they dont call your bet they call your all in of even 15000 chips on final table where everyone pretty much has over 10k chips…and if i dont chase i hit lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllll thats replay…
Just played this hand not 10 mins ago. Rocky has nothing and he goes all in? WTAF? Okay maybe it was a bluff but it backfired. If this was real money his kids would have to wait till next year for new shoes.
most players would be bankrupt here ive said it before and saying it again there are not more than 40/50 poker players the rest just call with total crap and hope to donk you and constantly keep bluffing…simply check your hand out to them and they drown in the river,your check to them means you dont have a hand and sign of weakness…see them go crazy when you check…
Good points. I actually think your two points are related. All of the passive play and limp/calling with weak hands just strengthens the range of hands that players open (since you would open KTs, for example, from the CO, but with 3 limpers ahead of you it is not necessarily good enough to open). Combined with passiveness and just being bad, that makes most players open ranges extremely extremely strong (top 3-4% of hands) TT+,AK or even stronger. That in turn makes the implied odds extremely good to play against them since they have strong hands that will pay off, which creates the incentive for more “chasing”, thereby perpetuating this awful cycle.
It is relatively easy for good players to get the better of this process, since opponents are usually so obvious about their hand pre-flop and post-flop. But a lot of people on here would rather rant and rave about how flushes hit 90% of the time instead of considering that their 1 bb bet was too small or that their pot size bet was too big and everyone folded except sets.
This is a FREE site. Common poker strategy/tactics only apply here when the table is seated with people who play as if it was real money. If you want a “real” poker experience (win or lose) play with real money. This is merely entertainment.
Any given night I am able to find a table that plays like real money.
I say that because the players have huge bankrolls and are playing small stakes very safely (until they get a monster)
If a bingo player comes along they sit back and wait until it’s time to pounce.
I’ve never asked but it seems they are actually practicing for live poker.
there are some. but i guess most players that play well, just enjoy a serious strategy more then just donking around.
shoving stacks around might be fun for so long, but usually people like to win as well, which requires a more serious strategy.
I have to concur with ZZ on this one. Unless you had a spectacularly good read on this particular opponent in this exact situation, your bet was right, but your raise should’ve been a call. Other than catching him in a pure bluff—as you actually did–you should’ve expected to tie, at best, or most likely, lose to his Q. Sorry.
Agreed pretty much across the board. To take it 1 step farther, the tighter opening ranges and the strings of flats retard most 3-bet/squeeze opportunities, allowing those flats to come into pots without being punished for it. The result is that ranges stay undefined pre-flop and lots of speculative hands get to see at least the 1st 3 cards. If you add in that they will still get multiple callers if they do 3-bet or squeeze, much of the preflop activity that you see in cash games is stunted here.
I think we can spend a lot of time talking about how the game differs from cash play but you are correct that the basic math remains the same no matter where the game is played. The key to succeeding then comes down to having solid fundamentals and for those who are able, to exploiting the weaknesses. Developing a counter-strategy to any exploitable behavior is what poker is all about. These are the exact same elements required to succeed at any level, in any forum, at any stakes.
It wasn’t real money for either of us. Good Lord, I’d never play at those stakes in an actual game! I’m far too frugal.
I did have a sense of his play and it was reckless. He’s been in Replay for a year and half longer than I have and he’s got 0 chips? I gave a very modest raise on my FH. He didn’t go all in at first- he was testing me. I raised. Then he went all in. I somehow sensed it was a bluff. Don’t ask me how, maybe it’s the timing? A call or raise can signal a deliberate or impulsive move based on that alone.
It was 10% of my bank and all of his. I’d never in a million years risk that in the real world but here, this simulation game, I’m a little bit bolder. Not by much but a bit. I’ve taken worse hits and recovered. But I’ve also learned if you don’t strike when the opportunity is presented to you, you won’t move forward.
But he went all in with zilch which is plain stupid. Who took the bigger risk?
[edit- not 10% but 1%. Sorry, moving decimals trips me up sometimes]
[edit 2- And I have made a LOT of boneheaded plays. Usually at the end of the day after a few too many glasses of wine. I’ll look up and sheepishly realize I’ve blown 30k. Thank God it’s play money]
nowadays you see many players ranked betweek 20k to 50k playing the 50k tourney making a total mess of it…for one they dont care if they lose they not playing for points/standings nothing just there to donk you out…
and then ofcourse our dear dealer just goes on feeding them cards…what i have started doing is not even play semi premium hands with them…and if flop is low they betting because those players simply call on any two cards…we fight like crazy to finish 1st to 7th or 1st to 5th and often in the bubble…you cant beat them…just one player out of the many…and they make the final table as they are fed cards for almost 2 hours non stop…
just now i flopped a set and this guy had a8 diamonds with 2 diamonds on the flop…i realised if i went all in this grand player is going to call as i think hes drawing a flush and true enough he was …so i bet 900 chips
he called instantly and next card ofcourse a diamond i thought id go all in but i realised the dealer is not going to give me a boat as they were kind last few days ive made decent chips and gathered decent points to be on top of the table of best 7 high stakes…and i dont think im going to get any more lucky breaks…so decided against going on all and saved 1500 chips in my hand…now i had to wait out till i get a good hand and sure enough i got kk few hands later and all folded except this grand guy and i knew before the flop im going to lose…sure enough he had 55 and hits a 5 on the river…THIS HAPPENS EVERYDAY ITS JUST PLAIN SICK
suggest site should have players ranked below 10k to play these tournaments…its so sick to see this doing it to the best of players and hands…and its as i said every day…just keep dodging there crazy players who really dont respect any bets…and the way they bluff…according to them bluffing is the largest part of the game and its silly seeing them throw 10k/20k chips just calling garbage…
bottom line- Those who dont value thier chips are the most dangerous players…they are just there to donk you out…they speak to no one all they do is just keep calling till they hit…its not a matter of two or three hands …just imagine sittting with a player who for 2 hours just keeps getting cards…never understood this…see it for yourself you will know how true this is…
agree 100%. one problem I have is site doesn’t believe anything their players say, but they believe a 3rd party site that has never played one single hand. I get tired of being sucked into hands that I believe will win and only have some player that has nothing and they keep calling and hit runner runner to win, or I go long time without a playable hand and soon I get hand like KK Etc… it loses. its just frustrating to no end.
It was only a high 2 pair! Honestly, that’s a pretty pathetic hand, sorta like winning with an A high. I count my lucky stars when I win with crap like that. I’ve had my awesome 2 pair knocked aside by 3 kinds and straights too often for me to believe it’s worth my time and chips pursuing if I come up against resistance (unless the wine is giving me false confidence of course).