Bingo Players Should Not Be Banned


#146

Proper push/fold strategies are fine and dandy, but if you push with AK and are called by A5, you will be beaten some of the time when he makes a pair of 5s, two pairs, a straight, or a flush, and that may be the end of your tournament. The other thing is that the format puts you into a position where you cannot necessarily wait for a top 25% or even a top 50% hand to push, particularly so because if there is a limper ahead of you, as they will nearly always call any raise, so your chances to be first into a pot and make a raise that will fold the blinds may be limited.


#147

That’s poker. Nothing fair about it. Regardless of the result of any particular hand, you can have a valid strategy for your actions or not. If you do, and especially if that strategy is based on solid math/data, then its not bingo.


#148

True, but early in a tournament it is a good idea to attack limpers from the Big Blind even, if you have nothing, but making them pay 3 or 4 xBB to see the flop. This aggressive Big Blind table image will act as a deterrent in the future and make them more likely to fold to you in the future. If you have three or four limpers and you punish them in this way, even if you do not take the pot, two or three of the limpers will be left licking their wounds, and making a note not to limp to your Big Blind, which will make it easier to defend you Big Blind in the future.


#149

So far, we have been unable to put an exact definition on what constitutes “bingo” play.

How many hands in a row do you have to shove to be a bingo player?

What if it’s not every hand, but just every hand one enters?

If everyone folds, how can we assume they are playing a bingo style? Is shoving AA not bingo, but shoving 72o is?

The current rules don’t allow us to be critical of another player’s style. How is calling someone a bingo player different than calling them a donkey?

Since it’s not allowed to be critical of someone’s style, it’s not allowed to report someone for playing any specific style. The report itself is a critical evaluation, which is well defined and explicitly not allowed.

How can anyone justify banning someone for an undefined “offense” when the mere act of reporting them is clearly against the site rules?


#150

Talking about banning someone is an extreme. You can substitute the phrase “any administrative action” for the word “banned.”

Mods should concentrate on collusion and abusive chat and totally ignore reports based solely on play styles.

I sometimes go into shove or fold mode, and have been called a bingo player because of it. From now on, I intend to report anyone suggesting that I am a bingo player.


#151

You should accept it as a badge of honor.

Maybe we should all learn bingo lingo and apply it to poker hands. Many, many years ago I took part in a bingo session in a Working Man’s Club in North Wales, and remember the arcane names for each number that you needed to know to call quickly such as Sunset Strip-77,Two fat ladies-88, Clickety Click-66, and Buckle My Shoe-32.


#152

It frustrates me that it is called Bingo playing. In Bingo, the winner must prove that each marked space had been Called. The over-betting is just like playing Slots. The cards have little, if any, effect on their play. Plug the $ in, pull the arm, enjoy the toots and whistles while going broke. Poker requires strategy and ability to evaluate the strength of all possible hands. NO! Please don’t complain or take them out. The chips are so easy. :smirk:


#153

By the way, I don’t call it “bingo,” I call it Pin the Tail on the Donkey.

Close your eyes, shove them in the middle, and hope you stick something.


#154

HEY! I’d really like to see the statistics on that statement. In my experience, it is more likely to be a young person with an inflated ego who has seen tournaments on TV. Convinced he can play as well or even better than the pros. I just turned 64 and believe my game is a bit above average. LOL Better be careful. We, my generation of baby-boomers, have proven determination in making huge societal changes. There are a LOT of us. Be nice. :wink:


#155

why scare the fish away from the pond…figure out how to take advantage of this


#156

Seriously? After more than 130 posts of repeated explanations, someone comes and says that once again?

I’m sorry, but I won’t be repeating myself and explaining anymore. Instead, I will just kindly ask you to support your post with answers to the following:

Who are “those supporting banning these players”?
Where are the posts where they said they support the ban?
What are the examples that these specific people have given?
What evidence do you have that “they don’t really happen”? Or that “they’re avoidable”? or that “they’re blown out of proportion”? If you’ve never seen them happen, does that mean they don’t really happen? If you’ve never seen them happen, how do you know if they’re avoidable or not? And if you weren’t there, how do you know if they were blown out of proportion or not?

Sorry I’m just curious as to how some of these conclusions are reached :thinking:


#157

Before I start, I’d like to sincerely apologize for not reading all 151 posts.

Here are your answers:

  1. I’m going to assume that there was some clarification that y’all don’t support banning but some other form of punishment or disincentive or something. However, your post #35 seems to imply that you yourself support banning these players:

Nah! You’re wrong. Anti-bingo logic is not banning anyone who doesn’t agree with you because it’s irritating.
Banning someone who doesn’t agree with you in the forums is like banning someone who folds when you raise.
A more correct analogy would be banning someone who comes to a thread about poker and posts 300 comments about peanut butter, then goes to a thread about fish, and posts 300 comments about peanut butter, then starts a new thread about global warming, and posts 300 comments about peanut butter.

Either way, it’s still totally unnecessary. Any punishment whatsoever for a play style is still wrong.

  1. Two examples really prove my point

a. One such example is this quote of yours:

Have you never done it and lost with your aces against their 52o? No matter how good you are, the luck on these people is always brutal to the best players who dare to call them, before someone actually gets them. This is mostly disastrous in SnGs and MTTs (except rebuys during the rebuy period). Call a bingo bet with aces and get eliminated from a tourney against their 72o and double their stack so that they can continue busting others out before they finally run out of luck.

Your example is that our hero calls a shove with AA, all other players fold, and the bingoplayer turns over 72off. The chance of the bingo-player winning is about 1/10. So 9 times out of 10 our hero will win with aces. Doesn’t really happen…

But wait, you say, that’s like a solid 10% chance, that’s not unthinkable.

Fair enough - but let’s look at the chances of aces hitting 27off in the first place. 1 in 6,497,400. Therefore, it only happens once in a blue moon (at most), and it’s blown out of proportion. You make a few assumptions after this, all of which are a little amusing - namely that I haven’t seen them happen. I’ve seen bad beats all the time, but don’t think I’ve seen 27off beating aces in an all-in, mainly because (get this) it just doesn’t happen - neither the shove or the beat I know you’re going to pull your “WAIT BUT JUST BECAUSE YOU’VE NEVER SEEN IT DOESN’T MEAN IT’S IMPOSSIBLE AND ALSO DOESN’T MEAN THAT 27 CAN’T WIN” which is just a little bit unreasonable in this context. The fact that I’ve never seen it proves my point, but math also means that I can understand the scenario without seeing it

b. The second is one I referenced in my original post:

I have 10 million in chips and I am going to go the the 1/2 tables and shove all in every single hand. If I lose so what because I just rebuy over and over until I have the biggest stack on the table and no one dares play a hand.

As I said, this meets all 3 of the problems I mentioned. This doesn’t happen. (This one I don’t have science, but the other 2 planks mean it’s justified). If it does, it’s blown out of proportion (proven by the fact that I’m willing to bet that no more than 3 people, if anybody, on this thread could tell me a true story of it happening, or show me a few replays of it happening). And, it’s avoidable. You leave the table, since it’s a ring game, and join a different one.

Now, something else to add: Bingo playing meets all three definitions you provided of the word “strategy.”

  • a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim.
  • A method or plan chosen to bring about a desired future, such as achievement of a goal or solution to a problem
  • A high-level plan to achieve one or more goals under conditions of uncertainty

It is a plan upon which a player is acting with the goal of accruing chips and winning the tournament.
It is a method of bringing about a place in the money in a tourney or gain more money in a ring game.
It is a plan (we can argue if it’s high-level, but that’s relatively beside the point) that is used to achieve the goal of gaining chips under the uncertainties that are playing poker - such as the uncertainty of your opponent’s hand, the state of your hand, etc.

So there you go. A little interested on how you’re going to react when it turns out the person commenting is not a low-IQ 10 year old like you assumed - guessing it’s going to be by using like 15 different strawmans like you did with everyone else on this thread.


#158

I was about to say that, even though the vast majority of what you said is completely wrong, it was a very interesting and well worded reply, until I read this:

After which I’ve decided it’s not worth replying. Thank you though!


#159

Haha - thanks I guess?

Sorry, I can get impatient at times.


#160

You know what? I’ve changed my mind. I really want to reply now, but I’ll make it brief:

Your first point: the quote you used has nothing to do with supporting a ban. SPG gave an analogy between a bingo player and someone who posts here, and I gave him a more “correct” analogy. It has NOTHING to do with supporting a ban or any form of punishment. So you’re completely wrong.

Your second point: the 2 examples you provided were NOT given by people who support the ban (going back to your previous point), which was what I asked you to provide evidence about. Moreover, they were not real life examples, they were just assumptions. You decided to take them literally and break down the odds of 72o against aces, but that wasn’t the point of the example. The real life examples I assumed you were referring to in your previous post would be when a moderator was called to the table, but I was wrong. It seemed you decided to choose something to pick on, which wasn’t intended to be used as a specific example.

Your third point about the definition of “strategy”: all 3 definitions are pretty much the same, and the key word in all of them is PLAN. We have established at the beginning of the thread that a bingo player (by the definition we decided to use) is someone who shoves and shoves and shoves without any plan. You can argue that not having a plan is his plan. But now we’re just entering needless paradoxes. You can call bingo a strategy that’s fine. I don’t agree with that. And I think that should be fine too.

There, I hope that wasn’t “another 15 strawmans like I did with everyone else on this thread”. And no, I don’t think you’re a low IQ 10 year old at all. In fact I have utmost respect for you and that’s why I am conversing with you, whether in this thread or another :wink:


#161

Forgive my final sarcastic jab: Yipee! Christmas came early!
Ok I’m done now, I’ll try to be polite.

  1. I thought you might say this, but I’m not convinced by this argument, simply because you give a counter analogy that also involves a ban. If you didn’t support one, it’d make sense to change that in your version of the analogy. Either way though, I shouldn’t put words in your mouth, so my question is: Where do you stand on this? If not a ban, then what do you think the punishment is?

  2. That’s just miscommunication, I guess? My point was that when y’all give examples of ways bingo playing is abusive or bad for the game, those examples don’t seem to hold up upon some basic inspection. I might not have been clear enough in my original post, sorry.

  3. I disagree with your basic assumption that shoving every hand isn’t having a plan. I’d say it’s more of a plan than most players have, because you know what you’re doing every hand. I’m a little confused about one thing you said in this point, but it could just be my misinterpretation… You said it’s fine if you disagree. Do you mean that if it is a strategy doesn’t make a difference, or just like “We see things differently, and that’s that?”

It wasn’t! Thank you, and you too, because if someone had responded to my post with like 25 sarcastic remarks and iffy-assumptions like I did to you I think my response would have been a lot more strongly worded and disrespectful.


#162

Thank you for that!

  1. SPG is the one who gave the first analogy, and he is against the ban or any form of punishment. I just replied with what I thought was a closer analogy to reality, that’s all. And to answer your question, I do NOT encourage a ban, or even punishment. In the example I gave, someone else at the table reported the bingo player, I wouldn’t even report such behavior, regardless of how irritating I find it. What do I think the punishment should be? Not sure there should be one. It’s just very annoying, irritating, kills the game for most if not all other players at the table, and I really really hate it! But like everyone else, I have to deal with it, and try to beat it or die trying that’s all LOL. The whole stand I was taking was to counter the support bingo players are getting on this thread. And the only suggestion I made was to tell these bingo players that what they’re doing is irritating, in the hope that they would stop (whether told by a moderator or by a little birdie, it doesn’t matter). Someone said that most of the time, telling them will only make them do it more. It could be true sometimes, other times it might just work.

  2. ok :slight_smile:

  3. I meant we see things differently and that’s that. But I also like “if it’s a strategy it doesn’t make a difference”. Can I use it too?


#163
  1. Oh… so we agree?
    I type all that up for nothing.
    Wow
    You know, there’s an obvious moral here (Essentially don’t judge a book by a cover - make sure you understand someone’s stance on something before hurling 100 insults at them) but I’m definitely not going to learn my lesson.

  2. Yeah, that makes sense.

Also, it told me to reply to other people, but what fun is that?


#164

It told me the same thing. I just ignored it LOL.

And no, you didn’t type all that for nothing. We did have fun, didn’t we? :wink:


#165

Cheers Maya,

Well thought out post. BUT I still have to say, as long as they are playing within the rules, (ie… they’re not cheating), whether you like it or not, we can’t dictate their play.

-Larry