Are you trying to kill me? LOL.
According the the site rules, one should not…
Insult, criticize or mock , taunt, make false/frivolous reports, cheat or collude
Name calling, personal attacks on players or their family members, perverse remarks
Calling someone a “bingo player” is insulting criticism and name calling. Since even suggesting that someone is a bingo player is clearly against the site’s rules, reporting someone for playing that style is frivolous, and clearly forbidden, not to mention that it’s rude and petty.
Banning someone for playing in a way that is illegal to report or even name is logically ridiculous. Therefore, there can be no enforceable rule against bingo play and nobody should ever be banned for it.
Semantics. “Strategy” for lack of a better word. It’s an approach to playing the game. A poor one. You can beat it, just by playing your regular game. Let the shove-lover break himself, or wait until you have cards you feel you can call with, and be the one to break him yourself.
Well, ok. I guess the mods are faster to respond than I would have thought. That’s still 30 hands of waiting for someone to intercede with a warning. I’ve never seen anyone last 30 hands shoving pre-flop every single hand. Playing them can resolve the problem faster.
Not that I’ve even seen someone doing it literally every hand. I’ve played some SNG games with a yahoo who starts out with an all-in preflop bet, and maybe opens up that way for 2-3 hands. They get everyone to fold, and are up the blinds, about 180 chips, more if someone limped in ahead of them and had to fold. Eventually someone gets AA KK QQ and calls, and they’re ususaly decimated at the end of that hand. In a 9-seat game, it happens pretty quickly, really.
Once their stack has gotten crippled, they’re not much of a threat anymore. If they continue to shove, continue to stay out of their way until you have cards to call them with, then call. It’s a lot easier when you’ve got a 10:1 stack advantage over them, and they’re still not likely to be shoving with great cards.
Even if the mods are responsive here and side with your complaint, that’s not to say that everywhere you play poker is the same way. Relying on a referee is a coin flip – some may find that the play style is valid and do nothing. You can try it if you like, but again the way to win is to win.
Within the last week or so, I played a 9-seat SNG, which I won, where I had to deal with an aggressive player. He wasn’t shoving literally every hand, but about halfway through the game, I was the big stack at the table, and he was just in front of me. It seemed like every time I had to put in the BB, he’d shove with his hand, and I ended up folding a lot of times because of this, when I would have been inclined to play the hand. I just quietly let him do his thing, and didn’t complain about it. What if I had? A) it would have tipped him off that it was bothering me, so he would have continued to do it. B) he could have just said it was a coincidence that he always had great cards every time he was in the SB for the past several orbits. Anyway, he lasted until the final 3, when in the BB position I happened to get dealt KK. He shoved, I destroyed him. He got a decent amount of my chips through the BB steal, I ended up with all of his. In the chat, I just typed: “Gotcha.” and that was the end of it.
Do I get KK every time something like this happens? No.
Is it inevitable that someone who shoves a lot will always lose? Kinda, but everyone always inevitably loses; table tournaments are finite, and it’s possible his time doesn’t come before the end of the tournament.
But even so, I’ve still never seen anyone win a tournament by shoving preflop with every hand, no matter what they have, from start to finish. I’m not saying it can’t happen. But the odds are pretty well stacked against it.
If that ever happened, poker would be broken, and become a dead game. There would be no point in playing if it were that easy to break the game. But I’m confident if you looked at the math carefully, you’d see it’s pretty far from a GTO strategy, and thus good poker player can beat players who only know shove pre-flop.
If he was “rocketing up the leaderboard”, I’d not only call that a strategy, but one I’d like to explore.
…and don’t call it “luck” there’s no room for luck in real poker!
> An add-on rule saying that you can’t use all your clock too often is arbitrary and therefore I reject it.
In any case on Replay Poker you barely have enough time to type in a raise amount and I have actually inadvertently folded premium hands like AK more than once, because insufficient time to transmit the raise.
LOL, Someone called me a bingo player tonight.
I had AT of hearts in early position and raised 4 x BB, which he called in the BB along with another player in mid table. The flop came with two hearts giving me the nut flush draw and two overcards. It was checked to me, so I put in a meaty pot size continuation bet, and both opponents folded.
BB then called me a “bingo player”. I had to laugh.
Just saw this thread.
I gotta say…Warlock & SPG’s arguments are devastatingly effective.
Calling someone a cheater is also insulting and name calling, and last time someone was reported and muted for doing it. However, it’s still illegal and against the site rules to cheat. You’re confusing name calling with abusive behavior.
It happens more frequently in Royal and Omaha tourneys than any other format, but it’s obviously rare.
That’s all we’re saying. It’s a game killer. Of course we all wait for the right cards and try to get rid of the bingo player. Of course some of us become victims while trying, and others succeed. Of course bingo players don’t last long in games and ultimately give away their stacks or get busted out of tourneys because of their bad play.
But saying that we should love and cherish them and that they have a positive effect on any real poker game is just preposterous. They’re not fun to play with, they’re not always easy to beat, and they’re in no way an asset to poker or to any game or tourney, by many standards, otherwise they wouldn’t be called “bingo players” to clearly say they don’t play poker, and they wouldn’t be so widely criticized.
Should they be banned for it? Probably not. I don’t think banning is the best approach, especially for a play style, like SPG said. Should something be said to them? Yes, why not? It’s very easy, if what 1 person is doing is affecting 8 others at the table, there’s no harm in telling them. If others weren’t complaining, we wouldn’t be having this conversation to begin with. But obviously there are complaints, and no harm is conveying the message.
P.S. I have met quite a few players on here who used to play crazy bingo when they started, and have now changed their play style and became brilliant players. I don’t think “bingo” is a lasting play style, but more like a phase. Nevertheless, it’s a game killer for some, me included.
But seriously @SunPowerGuru I neither want them banned, nor killed, nor burned at the stake
I could be a bingo player myself for other more professional players. I have to think about my future too
I know you’re saying it’s a game killer. I’m saying it’s NOT a game killer, but it WOULD BE if people were winning tournaments with this all-in every hand preflop “strategy”.
They’re not, so it’s not broken.
Does it disrupt a table for a short time? It does, but not in a way that is against the rules of poker. Until someone deals with it, by beating them. Everyone who witnesses it takes away that “you don’t win that way” and then they don’t play that way.
I didn’t say that I loved them, or preferred to play them.
They can be tough to beat, and even when you go up against them with AA you might still get beat by them, in that one hand, and yes, that might cost you a tournament. I still don’t see anyone winning tournaments by playing all-in preflop.
Of course you can say something in chat to a player, but the thing with that is, it’s as likely to encourage them as it is to get them to stop.
If you don’t want them banned from play, then what’s the point in calling a moderator in? The moderator issues a warning, the behavior stops. Why does it stop? Because the moderator has the power to disqualify a player and remove them from a tournament, or to ban them outright.
So you don’t want them banned, you just want them to be threatened with a ban.
What does a moderator tell this player, anyway? You can’t hit All In any more? That takes away a fundamental part of play in NLHE. You can’t outright ban the offender from ever shoving again. So then, they’d have to shove “justifiably”, that is if they shove any more, and someone complains about it again, now the player has to justify the action. Online, there’s no time for that, that I can see. In a live tournament, the judges can pause play and have a discussion for several minutes and work out what to do. In an online tournament, everything is controlled by the clock.
And if the judge asks the player to justify their decision to shove, the player can give any number of reasons for why they did what they did in a hand, and it may or may not be their real reason, but even if it isn’t, who’s playing the game: the judge or the player? Might as well sit the judge down in their seat and play for them if they’re telling us when we can or can’t shove our cards in.
If you don’t like it THAT MUCH, just play Limit games. No one can shove all-in preflop in a Limit game. Problem solved. Otherwise, beat them in-game, not by bringing referees into it.
You’d be surprised how limit games can also turn into bingo. All it takes is 2 bingo players at a table, and the FL (or PL) game turns into an endless raising match. There’s no winning with them.
And yes, a warning should be enough to make them realize how bad they’re influencing the game. It doesn’t have to lead to a ban. It’s just that some (if not most) of them don’t even know how bad they’re affecting everyone’s game until they’re told, and not just by another player (because then they’ll start enjoying it even more), but by an outsider. Again, there’s no harm in saying something to them, without it leading to drastic measures.
I totally get that. And yes it’s the best way. But again and again, no harm in saying something to them, even if it’s a referee telling them how they’re affecting the game.
There IS harm, if they hear you complaining, and they put it in their notebook as a technique that is known to get to you.
Some players might respond the way you want, but I’d bet that some will get annoyed that someone else is telling them how to play, and do it more just to spite you.
So, in that way, I do see that there’s harm in it.
BUT I think you’re free to play your game the way you want to play it, including how you choose to engage with players in the chat.
We’re not talking about the same type of bingo players here. The ones I’m talking about wouldn’t have notebooks or techniques for sure, so there’s no harm
I’m inclined to believe that they can remember you for the duration of the table.
Just for grins, I decided to try out all-in preflop shoving as an experiment.
I signed into a low stakes MTT, and got my cards and…
Immediately lost my nerve on the first hand. I couldn’t do it. I felt like a gigantic a-hole.
A hand or two later, I decided I’d do what I came to do, and stupid-shoved pre-flop with K5s, and promptly got called by 4 other players. Ended up with the best hand and took 2 people out of the tournament and went from 2000 to 7500 chips. Lol lo-stakes is truly the realm of the donkey.
Then the interesting part – since I won, and won so many chips, the tables rebalanced, and I got taken away from this table, and put onto a new one.
So, I can see here that if someone were to try this strategy, and was successful with it, they might get rebalanced away from the table they were being a menace at, and get dropped into a new table of unsuspecting players.
I just played normal after that, though, and didn’t pursue the tactic, although i did get shoved into by someone who had made a set, right when I made a straight, and someone else called, and I took most of their chips. That player is now tilt-shoving every hand. And after two hands, they just lost again and now have <400 left, which they just shoved into the middle again. And I just took everything from them again.
So, not every hand, but when you win, winning with an all-in bet is pretty much the best way to do it.
No confusion here. Name calling is absolutely abusive behavior. More so than any bet you can make at a table. For name calling I’d expect one warning. After that, a small cell with no window.
As for rules, they’re the same for everybody…until they’re not. Which do you prefer?
@Grateful_ed that’s not what we were saying. Name calling is abusive behavior no doubt. But what I was talking about is; when you call someone a certain name (like cheater), you’re being abusive, but that doesn’t mean that cheating is ok. Cheating is still against the rules. That’s all!
We still have the problem, of the term Bingo…
And I can 100% show a Strategy, when I play the 500 B&R, and it worked just fine for Halloween Harvest… it even works just fine Heads-up … and it is a strategy.
Amen to that …
2-3 very skilled PLO ( PL ) players can get hand 1 … to an all in on a 9 person table , how this is accomplished might go against another listed Replay Tournament rule, if so its a bad day for poker @ Replay.
@ the core of this discussion it seems is … can Replay modify , the same poker , everyone else plays… to something else, and still turn a profit once it is common knowledge.
No Limit poker… has the inherant rule… No limit on size of bet, up to the size of your chipstack. Any restrictions beyond that change it to something else…
Howabout the classic “squeeze play” in poker… If I can watch top pros do it, and its legal… then I come here and try to learn how to do it correctly, and get told… “Sorry Sarah, you can’t do that here, even in a MTT” , then really this no longer becomes a Poker site…
The integrity of the site is @ stake here… Are we playing the same poker as other poker sites and the same poker as @ WSOP… or are we playing Replay’s version of poker ?
I think we can agree that a series of raises and re-raises is a very different situation from a single all-in preflop bet.
I agreed with pretty much everything else you said, so don’t take the rest of this comment as a rebuttal. I’m just putting some (hopefully final) thoughts here to conclude my argument:
Competitive poker isn’t able everyone “playing nice” to let everyone see the flop.
I’ve been on tables where people play like that, and even in mid-tier SNG it’s fairly common in the first couple of orbits, when the blinds are tiny, that people will play a very wide range of hands, just to see more flops, on the thinking that if they hit something, they can crush the table with a sleeping monster that no one would suspect them of having.
That’s not such a bad strategy, and when it’s cheap to see the flop, a good player should choose to see more flops.
The way to shut that down is to raise when you have good cards. Raise enough until you get the limpers to fold.
You try doing it at some tables though, you might offend someone. Well, too bad for them. Raising is part of the game.
My point being, any good player observes the behavior at the table he’s at, and adjusts his/her play to the style at the table, to take maximum advantage of the mistakes that are commonly made there. If people are limping too much, start raising. If people are raising too much, start folding more hands.
If someone new enters the table, and their style of play immediately disrupts the style the rest of the table is accustomed to, and it’s a competitive play table, and not a friendly play table, then as long as what they are doing is legal, then you just have to adjust to it, and figure out how to play.
The better players do (kindof) welcome these challenges, because they are puzzles to figure out, and figuring them out leads to you becoming a better player. And ultimately we all (should) want to be better players. Now, sometimes, we do want to settle in at our favorite fishing hole and just rake in chips. But you always have to be capable of stepping your game up and defending your fishing holes from other players who try to move in and take a piece of your action.
The way to do that is through playing better. If you can.
I’ve done that in a 4-bet situation on the Bankroll Builder 1K. I had a good hand and opened with a pot raise, someone 3-bet me, and I was able to raise all-in with a 4-bet.
This is absolutely correct, start with about 3-5BB and increase it until you get 1-2 people who call, even if it means going all-in. There are people who will literally never fold a hand, no matter how high you bet. So, if you raise or even shove all-in with, say, the top 15-18% of starting hands, in the long run you should come out ahead. Simple math. I’ve done it before and have had a lot of success. Sometimes you just have to go all-in a few times to swat away the gnats who limp in every hand or call any sized bet.
It’s a part of the game. Leave it alone.